Secularism and the Decline of the West

I agree withskygazer..

It has alot to do with Chrisitianity and the church's own disconnect with Allah. It became political in a sense of owning kings, being its own government, controlling property, bankrupting people, oppressing the poor.

They sold people a bunch of man-made rules. Frankly people rebelled. How can you say that if I pay the church money I'll be saved? How does that work? People cannot stand the evangelicals who get in peoples' faces and say they will go to hell if they do not believe in Jesus Christ.  If someone told you these things you would not accept them either.

You have to look at the history to get an idea.  It is not something that developed over a decade or two. They turned away from the Church. When people want religion taken out it is because the Christian stuff is really off. The corruption was pretty intense.

For instance the Catholic Church decided not to allow priests to marry. The reason is that inheritance with through the family. So the kids (sons) would inherit the land. Thus the Church would not be the ruling land class anymore in Europe. They gave it flavorings as they were 'apostles' and should marry 'god'. Go figure. 

Then for women they were really 2nd class citizens. Virtually property. The Church demed them 2nd class by blaming the problems on women (as it was all Eve's fault for tempting Adam). Then setting up that women are either virgins or prostitutes. Not full, sexual beings. Like marry them only cause you have to.. very subtle messages that became a norm.

I think plus how you ask people a question you'll get different answers like:Do you believe in a Surpreme Being? Is different then if you believe in "God"? The word "God" I associate with the Church. I am sure for others that is likewise. Or ask what happens after we die? What do people think.. depends on how you phrase a question.

Angela my apologies to any Muslims here who have disrespected your faith. Hayfa with all due respect you show no justice in the propagation of Islam by denouncing Christianity like that. We Muslims know that yes we have some disagreements with Christianity but our goal is the same: The union with God, the Lord of the universe. I'm quite sick of hearing Muslims judge others when there are some Muslims here who don't practice their faith and we end up being hypocrites. Hayfa if you pray five times a day including doing your Obligatory and other prayers and are commissioned by God to judge then by all means do so, but please do not judge here. I only say this in the friendly sense.

Angela Skygazer has no religion and therefore is chaotic in his/her belief, he she thinks that religion is superstition and is the very ideal person for this article. The reason people are forgetting God is because they are losing the battle of remembrance. When one loses this battle then the war on remembering God is lost until a battle can be won by remembrance. In order to win such a war the individual must be aware through the actions of the rleigious congregation. I belioeve the churches of Europe are perhaps too much traditional, rather many defenders of religious faith should propagate their faith in unorthodox fashion. Some in New England have used the idea of going into Pubs and talking about Jesus there.

I believe that when we start in areas not ideal to the average congreagtionlist I believe we can make a small difference. But like I said before if we want to change on a grandscale then a catestrophic event has to happen which effetcs the lives of millions of people like 9/11 did. Either something like that or close to it.

Israfil wrote: Angela Skygazer has no religion and therefore is chaotic in his/her belief, he she thinks that religion is superstition and is the very ideal person for this article.

wrong again. I never said religion is superstition. And I'm not chaotic in my belief at all.

God is available to everyone; God is the hub of a wheel and we are the spokes. Each person has a different perspective and each travels a different path but if we keep focused on the hub (God) we all end up in the same place.

I have respect for Islam, Judaism, Buddhism, and lots of other religions. Some forms of Christianity are OK too; just the ones that think they're the only ones who God cares about are really, really offensive.

So don't put words in my mouth, puhleeze.

Skygazer then accept my apologies then.

Angel I believe the article is not discussing why people aren't going to church, but the collective spiritual decrease in the whole of that society. The same truth can be said about American pre 9/11. Before 9/11 the attendance in the churches were down but after 9/11 there was I believe a 60% increase in congregations. To me that is "unreal" because it took a catastrophe to make people remember God. I understand that you believe people don't need to congregate at a temple just to remember God but I believe that it helps because it can in some ways stabilize the familiarity of that union with God by watching the examples of other members. I also believe that, this uniformity can be helpful to people because they can count on each other to pull each other through spiritual crisis. If you don't have this you cannot always make it in religion.