Death Penalty for Apostates |
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abuayisha
Senior Member Muslim Joined: 05 October 1999 Location: Los Angeles Status: Offline Points: 5105 |
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Posted: 03 June 2015 at 7:13am |
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http://www.amazon.com/Apostasy-Islam-Historical-Scriptural-Analysis/dp/1565643631
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Ron Webb
Senior Member Male atheist Joined: 30 January 2008 Location: Ottawa, Canada Status: Offline Points: 2467 |
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From Is Apostasy a Capital Crime in Islam?:
After replying to the above post, I realized that it was in the moderated "Basics of Islam" section, so I thought it would be better to move my reply to here. -------------
Not that I want to engage in ad hominem, but I don't understand how Badawi qualifies as an authority on Sharia law. According to what I could find online, he has a Ph. D. in education (Management), and is a prolific author and public speaker on Islamic matters; but he has no formal training that I can see in sharia. Regarding the topic, I agree that there is no hard evidence for the death penalty for apostacy in the Quran, but I think he is wrong in his dismissal of the many hadith in support of it.
Exactly, he wanted to apostate. But did he? Apparently not. He asked to cancel his pledge, and was turned down. There is nothing suggesting that he actually renounced his faith after Muhammad forbade him to do so. Besides, the man fled to Mecca, away from Muhammad's jurisdiction, so sharia law no longer applied.
Explained above. Moreover, even if we assume the first hadith argues against the death penalty, it is the only one of the four hadith discussed here that does so. It would still be three hadith in favour of the death penalty, and only one opposed. Muhammad could have had many reasons for leniency in a particular case. If Allah is merciful, why can't Muhammad also be merciful on His behalf? It doesn't necessarily invalidate the general rule.
It is scarcely better to argue that the death penalty is even permissible, rather than mandatory.
It is hard to see how a ruling that begins, "whoever changes his religion", could be anything other than a religious ruling. Nonetheless, I can heartily agree with the main thrust of Dr. Al-Qaradawi's argument: that "this was one of the executive decisions by the authorities ... and not ... binding on the Ummah [Muslim community] at all times and everywhere and under all circumstances." But if that can be said for a hadith about apostacy, then why not for beards and hijabs and prayers and pictures and on and on? Why aren't all hadith regarded as mere executive decisions in response to historical circumstances, and not binding for all time? As I've said here many times, if the hadith were intended to apply for all time, then why didn't they receive the same divine protection from corruption for all time, as the Quran was protected? Edited by Ron Webb - 02 June 2015 at 7:51am |
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Addeenul �Aql � Religion is intellect.
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Rafi Reza
Starter. Male Joined: 05 March 2015 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 2 |
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AsSalamu Aliqum brother/sister, this is an amazing video about
APOSTASY! has clarified the misconceptions very well! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJNrHv9RCD0 PLEASE WATCH & SHARE! For subscription & more videos: https://www.youtube.com/user/ncapcs?sub_confirmation=1 |
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Tim the plumber
Senior Member Male Joined: 30 September 2014 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 944 |
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The option to do nothing is easy to argue. The option to try to find an end to a problem take courage and will require hard work. The minimum number of animals are used to test scientific ideas. A lot less than are killed to be eaten by men called Dave. I do object to the fact that I will one day die. I don't want to. I do want to increase the world's understanding of disease to the point where we can cure cancer all of the time. These experiments are as uncruel as they can be. |
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Ron Webb
Senior Member Male atheist Joined: 30 January 2008 Location: Ottawa, Canada Status: Offline Points: 2467 |
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I object to premature death and unnecessary suffering.
Suffering requires sentience, and the degree of suffering is therefore proportional to the degree of sentience. IMHO animal suffering is not on the same scale as human suffering. Yes, we should minimize animal suffering where we can, and animal experiments are required to follow stringent protocols to ensure that. But if a certain amount of animal suffering is needed to develop medicines that can prevent a whole lot of human suffering, then it's a trade-off that I am comfortable with. |
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Addeenul �Aql � Religion is intellect.
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airmano
Senior Member Joined: 31 March 2014 Status: Offline Points: 884 |
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786
Science -opposite to religion- teaches you to distrust even what you might consider as your most solid feelings and impressions- like the universal fatality for example. Airmano Edited by airmano - 17 April 2015 at 7:47am |
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airmano
Senior Member Joined: 31 March 2014 Status: Offline Points: 884 |
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786iec
I admit that there is a moral conflict. However there are serious attempts in the scientific world to reduce/avoid animal experiments. Personally, I am as much appalled by slaughtering of animals for cosmetics as by religious slaughtering. In both cases unnecessary suffering is produced for dodgy reasons. Coming to you: If your doctor has diagnosed you with a cancer, will you renounce on any medical treatment because the knowledge we have stems (to a wide extend) from animal experiments ? Airmano Edited by airmano - 16 April 2015 at 12:24pm |
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786iec
Newbie Joined: 06 April 2015 Status: Offline Points: 28 |
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human beings, as well as all living matter, will certainly die is such an established fact, that it is believed in by all people, irrespective of whether they believe in God or not, and nobody can really object to the process of death. Secondly, you cannot be so naive as to object to the process of illness - whether it being cancer or any other illness, or an accident, etc. - as a prelude to the process of death. Your objection stems from your misconception that 'goodness' is to relieve suffering, and to cause suffering is being 'cruel'. If this was so, then, you have no choice but to agree that the cruellest people in the world are the medical research-scientists who use animals for all their horrible experiments. Surely you must be aware of the thousands upon thousands of animals that are tortured in different ways and made to suffer a million agonies to prove or disprove certain scientific and medical claims? Are these experimenters not cruel?
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