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Tim the plumber
Senior Member Male Joined: 30 September 2014 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 944 |
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If I make it there I will be extremely surprised. I don't think it exists and if they let me in then they probably won't let in all those who have been praying to get there.
Then again that would be part of my admissions policy.... |
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NABA
Senior Member Male Joined: 13 December 2012 Location: India Status: Offline Points: 867 |
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Emmettman, I put a scenario in front of you, Allah in ch 78 v 6-7 says mountains as pegs, Allah in ch 21 v 31 of Quran says mountains helps in stabilising the crust of earth 1400 yrs ago.few decades earlier scientist frank press mentioned these same facts in his book the Earth which is the main reference book on geology in many universities around the world.we all know that prophet Muhammad S.A.W ( pbuh ) was illiterate so who coulf have tell such an advanced thing long time ago.answer is Allah.
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Peace maker
Senior Member Joined: 26 November 2014 Status: Offline Points: 314 |
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There is nothing in the Quran supporting your argument that the mountains stabilising the earths crust.
(chapter:21)(verse:31)
31. And We have set on the earth mountains standing firm, lest it should shake with them, and We have made therein broad highways (between mountains) for them to pass through: that they may receive Guidance. (chapter:78)(verse:6-7) Have We not made the earth as a wide expanse, And the mountains as pegs? (chapter:27)(verse:88) Thou seest the mountains and thinkest them firmly fixed: but they shall pass away as the clouds pass away: (such is) the artistry of Allah, who disposes of all things in perfect order: for he is well acquainted with all that ye do. But, in fact, this is false. Earthquakes are common events associated with the forming of mountains
While it is true that many mountain ranges are composed of folded rocks (and the folds may be of large scale) it is not true that the folds render the crust stable. The very existence of the folds is evidence of instability in the crust. In other words, Mountains don't keep the earth from shaking. Their formation caused and still causes the surface of the earth to shake. |
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airmano
Senior Member Joined: 31 March 2014 Status: Offline Points: 884 |
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Emettman
Since everybody around you (within your group) tells you the same thing you start to consider it as true and obvious in the end, where very often it is not ! Accepting another point of view can not only cost you your prior point of view but - much more important- also your social environment as well. For my this is the most likely explanation on how the ridiculous claims in Bucaillism can survive. There is a nice definition of "genius" I once read. Genius = "Not understanding the obvious". May be this definition can be enlarged to other things as well. Airmano Edited by airmano - 14 December 2014 at 1:13am |
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Emettman
Senior Member Male Joined: 02 December 2014 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 144 |
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And I have one for you. Your scenario is massively revealing, but not in the way you intended. It only took ten minutes to confirm all my expectations.
Yes, these words are in the Quran. I have reason to think the text is not of divine origin. "...few decades earlier scientist frank press mentioned these same facts in his book the Earth which is the main reference book on geology in many universities around the world." This, it was quickly found has been borrowed directly or indirectly from Zakir Naik. Unfortunately, what TAKES ONLY A FEW MINUTES TO CHECK is that Frank Press makes no parallel statement in his book. Nothing like it. Neither are mountains particularly stabilising, as any geologist would point out. They rise, they erode. At the edge of tectonic plates they are massively unstable. I live in an area featuring a large flattish granite outcrop. It's origin was underneath a mountain, as a lava reservoir, millions of years ago. The mountain is gone. The granite, being harder has lasted longer. "If it weren't for plate tectonics and volcanic activity, all land on Earth would eventually be washed into the ocean." That would be stability. An even shallow sea over the whole of the earth. The idea is odd and claiming a geologist to support is wrong.
No, the answer is that no such "advanced knowledge" is present in the given text. I'm afraid you have shown: Naive trust. A total failure to check sources and quotations for accuracy and legitimacy. A marked unawareness of the issue of "reading in" (it relates to texts of any sort) and the tendency to make a text say what you wish it to say: in this case match a "scientific finding". Unfortunately even the "finding" has in this instance been manufactured. You will be telling me next that NASA has confirmed that the moon once split in two, as described in the Quran. NASA has done no such thing, of course, but all those who have put up websites proclaiming this don't seem to have noticed that, nor any whom have swallowed whole what these websites and other related ones proclaim. No questioning, no checking, no doubting, no critical thinking. Or very little. The extenuating factor is probably that you have had little training or practice in these techniques. (This is not a particular attack on you: you are far from alone.) Chris |
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Emettman
Senior Member Male Joined: 02 December 2014 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 144 |
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Yes, despite numerous individual exceptions changing in every direction, this does not affect the fact that social beliefs, religious and otherwise are for the vast majority absorbed and accepted from either what is dominant in local society or, if different, from the tighter closer group formed by family of minority grouping. It goes onto demographic maps incredibly well. Even in detail, to things like the distribution of different Christian denominations in the USA revealing the history of immigration to particular regions, and remaining as markers centuries later. I am pretty certain that this map below showing the above is inoffensive, being a record of geographical distributions, only. If such is not allowed or is deemed inappropriate I trust a moderator will inform me by removing it. http://www.valpo.edu/geomet/pics/geo200/religion/church_bodies.gif Chris. |
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NABA
Senior Member Male Joined: 13 December 2012 Location: India Status: Offline Points: 867 |
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Allah in Quran in ch 75 v 3-4 says-"Does man think that we cannot assemble his bones? Nay, We are able to put together in perfect order the very tips of his fingers."why Quran,while speaking about determination of identity of the individual,speak specifically about fingertips??? In 1880, fingerprinting became scientific method of identification,after research dobe by sir francis golt.No two persons in the world can ever have exactly the same fingerprint pattern.1400 yrs ago who could have known the uniqueness of each human's fingerprint???? Answer is Allah.
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Emettman
Senior Member Male Joined: 02 December 2014 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 144 |
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I'm sorry, but to me that is a very clear example of "reading in": adding a desired meaning or interpretation to a text which was never intended. So many of those who believe that they can demonstrate the perfection and divine origin of the Quran by finding "modern science" referenced there slip into this erroneous technique all too readily, and those not trained to critique, analyse or weigh such grasp at these "revelations" all too willingly. It's not unique to Islam. I've regularly met This phenomenon in Hinduism, for example: "Scientific Miracles in Hindu Scriptures". Thus the relatively uninformed are taken in and convinced, and those more aware are concerned and embarrassed that such claims are still used to bolster faith or convince people. The proliferation of sites proclaiming "NASA confirms the splitting of the moon in two", most of which are clearly copied one from another, is a blatant illustration. Anyone actually checking would have discovered that NASA has done no such thing, and has no suggestion of a split moon in human history. But the checking, the doubting, is not done. It doesn't seem to be a familiar skill. I suspect it's not well, or frequently, taught. |
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