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how do you disprove god?

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omer View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote omer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: how do you disprove god?
    Posted: 07 December 2014 at 3:38pm
With every theory that's put forth, there's always something that can disprove the theory. For example, gravity can be disproven, if you bring two large masses together, and they suddenly repulse each other instead of attracting each other. thermodynamics similarly has specific things that can disprove it, but no one has brought about evidence that is required to disprove it.
Every statement of how things are...has something that can disprove it.

What has to happen to disprove god?

If you say nothing can disprove god, that's a silly argument, because it's the same as me saying. I'm god, and everything happens because of me. pray to me and i will grant you anything you want. but if you pray to me and it doesn't happen, that means you weren't true in your faith, otherwise it would've come true. But at the same time there's no standards for faith either. so the more ambiguity that i can put forth the less you can disprove my claim of being god.


You can disprove that the world is round by taking a picture of a world that is flat, you can disprove every theory...because there is something you can do to disprove it.

What has to happen to disprove the existence of a god?


omer
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Tim the plumber View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tim the plumber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 December 2014 at 10:47am
How come you get to post stuff like this when my posts are most often deleted?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Caringheart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 December 2014 at 11:13am
Originally posted by Tim the plumber Tim the plumber wrote:

How come you get to post stuff like this when my posts are most often deleted?

Hi Tim the plumber,

I used to often have the same question.  So many of my posts were denied while others I considered far more challenging were allowed.
It may have something to do with what forum you are posting in?

asalaam,
Caringheart


Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever
"I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis
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Emettman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Emettman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 December 2014 at 2:03pm
I am delaying chipping in, although it is a topic and question of interest, as on an Islamic site I thought it would be better to pause until an Islamic perspective or two had been given.

Just in the meantime, have you considered exactly what you mean by "prove"?

I don't think I can PROVE there will be a dawn tomorrow.
Not strictly. Not to the elimination of every single scrap of epistemological doubt.

This does not give me sleepless nights, or make me a 50/50 agnostic on the matter.
There will be a dawn tomorrow, for reasonable usages of certain.
But PROVE it? Absolutely?   Not so simple.

Chris.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote airmano Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 December 2014 at 12:56am
In programming you can define a boolean A and make the statement (assignment): A=true.

There is no way to (dis)prove that A is "false".
Even God could not decide on it.

In other words: we have to live with uncertainties.

Bad luck:

Airmano


Edited by airmano - 10 December 2014 at 12:57am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Emettman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 December 2014 at 1:25am
Originally posted by airmano airmano wrote:


In other words: we have to live with uncertainties.

Bad luck:

Airmano


Bad luck possibly, or just how things are, but I agree.
The only way to live without uncertainty is to not notice or to deliberately ignore the very real uncertainty.
Not a route I'd take by choice.

If I know about the uncertainty I can manage it.
Formally, there is a science of fuzzy logic.
(Which is not about thinking fuzzily.)

Chris
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote omer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 January 2015 at 7:27pm
That's quite a bit of a cop out to say that you can't prove there will be a dawn, is absolutely false. First we define dawn. It's when the first rays of light break the horizon. Thereafter you make the statment based on your understanding that tomorrow at 5am the sun will break the horizon. Now to prove that this is true or not, we simple look to see what happens tomorrow at 5 am. Either it will break and dawn will occur or it won't. So it is provable. Every statement has to have a way to disprove it if it doesn't it;s a worthless question. Such as what is the sound of the color green. The sound of the color green is a horn. How do you prove it. You can't does that then make it true? No it just makes it a non sense question.

If you claim to know about the world, then you should be able to state that if this happens then i'm wrong. Gravity has that aspect to it as well as every statement about the world that people who don't use god as a reason can put forth.

For those who make statements about the world, you need to be held to the same standard as every other person who makes statements about the world (i.e. scientists). If you want to say no, becuase it's religion i don't need proof, then you should remove your statments from the realm of reality, and put it in the world of fiction such as dragons, and fairies, and zeus.

See i can say dragons exist, but they can't be tested for because they are magic. But they exist.

There's no way to disprove this statment. So it's of no value.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Emettman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 January 2015 at 8:32am
Originally posted by omer omer wrote:

That's quite a bit of a cop out to say that you can't prove there will be a dawn, is absolutely false. First we define dawn. It's when the first rays of light break the horizon. Thereafter you make the statment based on your understanding that tomorrow at 5am the sun will break the horizon. Now to prove that this is true or not, we simple look to see what happens tomorrow at 5 am. Either it will break and dawn will occur or it won't. So it is provable.


That's not proof. it's the fulfilment of a single prediction.
And there's no rule that an event happening once has to be repeated.
Yes, I have no practical doubt about dawn tomorrow.
But I cannot prove beyond *all* doubt that tomorrow might be different.
Confusing "extremely probable " with "certain" causes problems, when the difference matters.

Rather like dawns, how many white swans had people seen?
But accumulating instances does not produce a proof that all swans are white.
And then a black swan turns up.

Quote
Every statement has to have a way to disprove it if it doesn't it;s a worthless question."

Now I agree with that!

Hence the idea that this world is just a computer simulation, or that God created the world last Thursday (complete with *apparent* age, *apparent* old memories etc. ) are essentially unfalsifiable. And therefore not much use.

Quote If you claim to know about the world, then you should be able to state that if this happens then i'm wrong.


Oh yes: what would disprove evolution? Fossil rabbits in Pre-Cambrian rocks, was a classic example.


Quote

For those who make statements about the world, you need to be held to the same standard as every other person who makes statements about the world (i.e. scientists). If you want to say no, becuase it's religion i don't need proof, then you should remove your statments from the realm of reality, and put it in the world of fiction such as dragons, and fairies, and zeus.

See i can say dragons exist, but they can't be tested for because they are magic. But they exist.

There's no way to disprove this statment. So it's of no value.


I agree.
I have been known to invoke the Invisible Pink Unicorns for this very purpose, to show how arguments for the existence of God are intrinsically irrefutable and of little value because they work equally well for dragons or Invisible Pink Unicorns.
(that they are invisible *and* pink clearly demonstrates their existence in a realm beyond adequate human comprehension.

Chris

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