The Original Sin

Dear Brothers and Sisters

Assalaamualaikum

I wish to raise a question which is at the foundation of inter-faith dialogue. The Original Sin.

The idea is central to Christianity. In fact, it is the justification for raising Jesus PBUH to the status of a god.

I wonder at times how can an average christian believe in such a concept. Particularly, when there is ample evidence
evidence in the Bible itself that rejects it.

Let us first see the OT:

Gen. 3:14
"And the Lord God said unto the serpent, 'Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life'".

This is a curse upon the serpent and that too only a worldly one.

Ezek 18:4
Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

Ezek 18:20
The soul that sinneth, it shall die.

(Deuteronomy 24:16)
�The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.�

The Bible is very clear that no person will be responsible for the sins of others. Each person is answerable for himself alone and cannot blame it on Adam and Eve.

Btw, this concept matches exactly the Qur�anic point on this issue.

In the NT Jesus says:

"But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven."

Matthew 19:14 (also Mark 10:14, and Luke 18:16).

So Jesus (pbuh) himself is telling us that children are born without sin and are destined for heaven without qualification. In other words, no one is born stained with an original sin. Once again, the teachings of Islam. Islam teaches that you are destined for salvation from your very birth. This will be your reward unless you refuse this gift and insist on disobeying God.

2) All the many millennia of previous prophets (Moses, Abraham, Jacob, Noah, ...etc.) and their people are all condemned to never receive true salvation simply because Jesus, the alleged "Son of God," arrived too late to save them. In other words, they have sin forced upon them (by Adam, 1 Corinthians 15:22) and the chance for redemption withheld from them (By Jesus' late arrival after their death, Galatians 2:16). Paul says

"Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come."
Romans 5:14

If Jesus had only arrived as soon as Adam committed his sin and not thousands of generations later then maybe all of these generations could have received true salvation (like this generation).

3) What right did the prophets of God have to deceive their people and tell them that they would receive eternal salvation and expiation from their sins if they but kept the commandments? What right did they have to teach them all of these commandments and the observance of the Sabbath and other hardships if all of their works were worthless and belief in Jesus' sacrifice which would not occur till many thousands of years after their death was the only way to salvation, or as Paul put it :

"a man is not justified by the works of the law ... for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.."

Galatians 2:16.

Jesus (pbuh), however, tells us that

"For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

Matthew 5:18-19.

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Edited by Muslim75 - 17 January 2015 at 12:14pm

Okay, Saint, I see you may be trying to base your interpretation of what is original sin on the Biblical scriptures you cherry-picked.  However, if you do not believe the Bible to be the Word of God, why would you use it to debunk what you don't believe in anyway?  If it is because you are attempting to persuade me from my own scriptures, it would only work if you did not take verses out of context and twist them to fit into your own beliefs.  You aren't the only Muslim on this site that does this, but it is to no avail when the context is ignored.

The concept of original sin, or man's inherent sin nature, goes back before the serpent in the Garden.  It began in Gen. 2:16-17, "¹⁶ And the Lord God commanded the man, �You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; ¹⁷ but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.�  Adam and Eve disobeyed and they died, not physically of course, but spiritually.  They lost not only their innocence, but more importantly, they lost fellowship with God and were driven out of His presence.  None of the other scriptures you quote pertain to original sin.  And, the Matthew, Mark and Luke scriptures you quote simply do not talk about the sinlessness of little children, but about their simple faith and ability to believe.  Something adults often struggle with.

As to the OT and how their sins were atoned for, on the Day of Atonement, the Jewish high priest went into the temple to offer sacrifice for his sins first and then for the sins of the people.  The sacrificial Lamb that he offered was an archetype of Yeshua, Who was to come, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world.  I especially like the J.B. Phillips translation of Rom. 5:15:  " ¹⁵ But the gift of God through Christ is a very different matter from the �account rendered� through the sin of Adam. For while as a result of one man�s sin death by natural consequence became the common lot of men, it was by the generosity of God, the free giving of the grace of one man Jesus Christ, that the love of God overflowed for the benefit of all men."  Yeshua did not arrive too late to save the Jews; they had the Day of Atonement, which looked forward to the cross.  For the last two thousand years, Christians look back to the cross and Yeshua's sacrificial death and subsequent resurrection.

Yeshua was never raised to the status of a god.  He was God clothed in humanity from His conception.  John 1:1-18:

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. ² He was with God in the beginning. ³ Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. ⁴ In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. ⁵ The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

⁶ There was a man sent from God whose name was John. ⁷ He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all might believe. ⁸ He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light.

⁹ The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world. ¹⁰ He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. ¹¹ He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. ¹² Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God� ¹³ children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband�s will, but born of God.

¹⁴ The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

¹⁵ (John testified concerning him. He cried out, saying, �This is the one I spoke about when I said, �He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.�) ¹⁶ Out of his fullness we have all received grace in place of grace already given. ¹⁷ For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. ¹⁸ No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known." 

Edited by kingskid - 22 November 2014 at 2:29pm

kingskid wrote: Okay, Saint, I see you may be trying to base your interpretation of what is original sin on the Biblical scriptures you cherry-picked.�

Ok, tell me what did I leave out?


However, if you do not believe the Bible to be the Word of God, why would you use it to debunk what you don't believe in anyway?

I did it to show you that the Bible is inconsistent. One part says something and the other part opposes it. And the Quran gives us a criterion that if anything is from other than Allah it is sure to have discrepancies?

� If it is because you are attempting to persuade me from my own scriptures, it would only work if you did not take verses out of context and twist them to fit into your own beliefs.� You aren't the only Muslim on this site that does this, but it is to no avail when the context is ignored.The concept of original sin, or man's inherent sin nature, goes back before the serpent in the Garden.

I do not like to win arguments for personal glory. I am a slave of Allah. Therefore, I try to present facts to the best of my knowledge. However, if you feel I have quoted out of context, you are welcome to show me and correct me.
As regards the 'earliest source' of the so-called Original Sin, I shall be grateful if you could add to my knowledge. Please tell me.

� It began in Gen. 2:16-17, "<span id="en-NIV-47" ="text="" gen-2-16"=""><sup ="versenum"="">16�And the <span style="font-variant: small-caps" ="small-caps"="">Lord</span> God commanded the man, �You are free to eat from any tree in the garden;</span> <span id="en-NIV-48" ="text="" gen-2-17"=""><sup ="versenum"="">17�but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.�</span>� Adam and Eve disobeyed and they died, not physically of course, but spiritually.� They lost not only their innocence, but more importantly, they lost fellowship with God and were driven out of His presence.� None of the other scriptures you quote pertain to original sin.� And, the Matthew, Mark and Luke scriptures you quote simply do not talk about the sinlessness of little children, but about their simple faith and ability to believe.� Something adults often struggle with.

I think you failed to prove that the idea of the Original Sin predates the serpent incident.


As to the OT and how their sins were atoned for, on the Day of Atonement, the Jewish high priest went into the temple to offer sacrifice for his sins first and then for the sins of the people.� The sacrificial Lamb that he offered was an archetype of Yeshua, Who was to come, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world.� I especially like the J.B. Phillips translation of Rom. 5:15:� " <span id="en-PHILLIPS-1873" ="text="" rom-5-15"=""><sup ="versenum"="">15�But
the gift of God through Christ is a very different matter from the
�account rendered� through the sin of Adam. For while as a result of one
man�s sin death by natural consequence became the common lot of men, it
was by the generosity of God, the free giving of the grace of one man
Jesus Christ, that the love of God overflowed for the benefit of all
men.</span>"�

The very doctrine of atonement is severely questionable! It is an inconsistency between the OT and the NT. Invented no doubt by later writers of the Bible as ordered by mortal men to write that which was invented to change the word of God.

You know that the OT is absolutely clear on the issue. Saying that the son must not bear the inequity of the father. Therefore, the idea of the OS is clearly invented by rewriters of the Bible with the objective of raising the status of Jesus PBUH to that of more-than-a -man.

Yeshua did not arrive too late to save the Jews; they had the Day of Atonement, which looked forward to the cross.� For the last two thousand years, Christians look back to the cross and Yeshua's sacrificial death and subsequent resurrection.Yeshua was never raised to the status of a god.� He was God clothed in humanity from His conception.� John 1:1-18

How could Jesus PBUH save nations that preceded him? Your notions are not consistent with the idea you are trying to convey. That he was a universal saviour. The earlier nations had not even heard of doctrines like the OS, Cross, Atonement and so on.


1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

This still does not make him God, does it?

6 There was a man sent from God whose name was John. 7 He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all might believe. 8 He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light.

Yet, Jesus PBUH said about John:Mat 11:11 Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist

9 The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God� 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband�s will, but born of God.

We are children of God. But not in the sense of being sired by Him. He is our creator, as such we are His children.

14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

Fiction, more likely!

15 (John testified concerning him. He cried out, saying, �This is the one I spoke about when I said, �He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.�)

So, who is right, Jesus PBUH or John?

16 Out of his fullness we have all received grace in place of grace already given. 17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

Why couldn't grace have come through Moses or Muhammad PBUTB?

18 No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known."

This is a self-contradictory statement. Because if no one has seen God how could Jesus PBUH be seen?