Fear of Hell?-soothing words that helps |
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AhmedNagi
Groupie Joined: 18 November 2005 Location: Egypt Status: Offline Points: 42 |
Posted: 18 December 2005 at 10:23am |
Al Salamu Alaykum Wa Rahamatu Allahi Wa Barakatuh, Dear Gospelmap, When a book claims that it is the word of God and supports this using scientific evidence that was only known to God when the revelation came into being, then it holds a case. But when a book claims that is was sent down by God and yet contains contradictions, then that automatically rules it out as being true. I also won't believe Joseph Smith's claim that he got revelations when he went into the forest just because he says so. He has to back it up with some kind of proof or miracle. Muhammed's miracle is the Quran. There is no way this book was written by a human let alone an illiterate one, with so much scientific detail. Now you say that none of the allegations were proven right. Well I say you haven't been doing your homework. I suggest you read a book called 'The Bible, The Quran and Science' by Maurice Bacaill, then read William Campbells retort. After you do this, watch the debate between Dr. Zakir Naik with William Campbell about his retort. And this is one of the many examples of how these allegations were proved to be right. Again I ask you, who are the real witnesses that the material of the bible was taken from? I mean by that their names, backgrounds history, anything that would give me an idea of who they are. 'People who witnessed these events' is not a good enough answer. For all I know they could have been people telling what they heard off others in their own way. There might be many sects in Islam but they all believe in the same exact flawless book. On the other hand, the Bible was changed numerous times over history and there were over 100 gospels before the final bible was compiled. Edited by AhmedNagi |
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Maryga
Senior Member Joined: 10 July 2005 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 143 |
Posted: 18 December 2005 at 3:05pm |
Thankyou Pauline, I really appreciate your wise input. I don't think any of us here are "scholars" in the real sense but I think most of us read the Qur'an everyday and understand it, that is why we are more than convinced about the truth of our religion. Not only that for those who pray and read the Quran regularly we see and experience God's revelations often so we know that we must continue to grasp this truth firmly and that is the only way to success both in this world and the next. Here are just a few verses from the Qur'an which I felt I must post: 009.030:The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth! 009.033:It is He Who hath sent His Messenger with guidance and the Religion of Truth, to proclaim it over all religion, even though the Pagans may detest (it). 009.035 :On the Day when heat will be produced out of that (wealth) in the fire of Hell, and with it will be branded their foreheads, their flanks, and their backs, their flanks, and their backs.- "This is the (treasure) which ye buried for yourselves: taste ye, then, the (treasures) ye buried!" 004.171:O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) a messenger of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His messengers. Say not "Trinity" : desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah: Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs. 004.172:Christ disdaineth nor to serve and worship Allah, nor do the angels, those nearest (to Allah): those who disdain His worship and are arrogant,-He will gather them all together unto Himself to (answer). 004.173:But to those who believe and do deeds of righteousness, He will give their (due) rewards,- and more, out of His bounty: But those who are disdainful and arrogant, He will punish with a grievous penalty; Nor will they find, besides Allah, any to protect or help them. 004.174:O mankind! verily there hath come to you a convincing proof from your Lord: For We have sent unto you a light (that is) manifest. 004.175 :Then those who believe in Allah, and hold fast to Him,- soon will He admit them to mercy and grace from Himself, and guide them to Himself by a straight way. |
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Nima
Newbie Joined: 29 November 2005 Status: Offline Points: 39 |
Posted: 18 December 2005 at 3:25pm |
First let me say that I'm sadden that Herjihad you can respond here but in the Islam and Ethics dialogue you have yet to respond to me as I have answered you inquiry with that said I'd like to make some points here. In my understanding of the world all religions presuppose some absolute truth. All religions presuppose some form of "release from ignorance." With the buddhist its the annihilation of the "self" called "Nirvana" with Christians its going to heaven and same with Muslims. there is always some way to attain a peace and though that there is a doctrine which tries to support that. With that said let me say that I've heard Muslims say here that one has to be Muslim in order to attain that type of peace. Similar argument (even to a greater extent) also from Christians. My point here is that is goodness not enough for God eve if one doesn't understand or deny him? Is it not enough that a man is punished because he doesnt share a religion, a congreagation of some sort? there is a fear of hell because man is condemn even in light of his good nature and deeds all because he doesn't believe in the historical existence of prophetic figures. I don't fear hell as I have seen it personally in life a dif there is a mor terrible and agnoizin existence and I'm going there all because my good nature and good spirit is not enough for a deity then why am I prompted to believe in such a deity? Funny the initial chat started out discussing the question at hand then it slowly discuss he nature of Jesus without actually answering the question so I would assume nobody here can't answer mine. I'm really sincere with my questioning and perhaps it takes a patient Muslim of understanding to discuss those issues with me. So without posting Koran verses in response to my inquiry please respond with, your own Islamic knowledge and answer the questions here. |
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Hayfa
Senior Member Female Joined: 07 June 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2368 |
Posted: 18 December 2005 at 3:34pm |
All the prophets sent to the world have different but yet the same message. What we humans have done with that message is the issue. I was raised Catholic and figured it was quite illogical at a young age, starting at age 7 and having to �confess� my sins, alone to a guy (priest) in a room the size of a closet. I never could understand at age 7 what a �sin� was nor felt comfortable with some man I barely knew being the supposed conduit of my �salvation�. Islam is about basic logic. Christianity as we see it today, became lost from that logic long ago. It is well known by Biblical scholars that the Bible was changed, altered and deleted to serve those in power. Mainly where Christianity, went wrong, besides attirbuting God to having a 'son' it was also twisted to give humans power that they do not have, rpiests, ministers, etc. Allah gave people a brain and has encouraged people to use it; hence we should be thinkers and questioners. In Christianity if you �question� things you are told you just need to �believe�, and to put away your logic and powers of thought and rationality. To say that god sent �his only son� to save us from our sins, was crucified, died and was risen to heaven defied basic logic.
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When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Rumi
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herjihad
Senior Member Joined: 26 January 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2473 |
Posted: 18 December 2005 at 5:20pm |
Bismillah, Forgive me for getting sidetracked, Nima. I was thinking about what you said in your post. I do that sometimes. The answer to this post of GM was really easy for me, and I'm very sure of what I feel about it, so I gave it right away. So as not to derail this topic, I'll go post to that one tomorrow, ISA, God Willing, as it is past my bedtime now! |
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Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will.
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Maryga
Senior Member Joined: 10 July 2005 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 143 |
Posted: 18 December 2005 at 7:07pm |
Nima wrote: With that said let me say that I've heard Muslims say here that one has to be Muslim in order to attain that type of peace. Similar argument (even to a greater extent) also from Christians. My point here is that is goodness not enough for God eve if one doesn't understand or deny him? Is it not enough that a man is punished because he doesnt share a religion, a congreagation of some sort? there is a fear of hell because man is condemn even in light of his good nature and deeds all because he doesn't believe in the historical existence of prophetic figures. Nima I�ll try to answer your question here and God willing Herjihad will answer you too. One who believes in the Oneness of God and obeys His commands is a Muslim. So no matter what you call yourself if you believe in the One & Only God and do not associate anything with Him then you are a Muslim. Nima say for instance that your parents are providing you with everything � good food, a good house, love and plenty of money which you shower as gifts upon your friends. But while you receive the admiration of your friends for your generosity, you do not acknowledge any gratitude to your parents. Would this be right? I think certainly not! There is nothing worse than an ungrateful child and the parents would be extremely hurt and full of remorse. Now God provides for you everything, absolutely everything � the air you breathe, the food you eat, the water you drink, the body you possess, the love of those relatives & friends and the list is endless. It is impossible to count God�s blessings on mankind. There is a verse in the Qur�an which says that if the sea was ink and there were seven such seas still the ink would not be enough to write the favours of God on mankind! And this is absolutely true! What we perceive is infinitesimal. And we don�t think enough and reflect how God produces that beautiful tree from that tiny seed which we scarcely saw. There is so much before us that we don�t reflect upon. After seeing and enjoying all that God has granted us how can we deny Him? No matter how good you are, when you don�t acknowledge the Creator who provided you with those conditions of goodness that you display, of what good are your deeds? Your goodness should stem from acknowledging the Creator first and where will be your goodness if you yourself were miserable in pain and suffering? If all the above were denied to you? Secondly, just as you are now most people are and have been. That is they did not know or grasp the existence of God who is the Creator of the Universe and everything beyond. Man in his foolishness worshipped everything - the sun, the moon, all sorts of animals and even human beings as god, instead of the real God. To correct man in his folly God in His kindness and Graciousness sent messengers to mankind. There have been thousands of messengers and only a few are well known. All these messengers brought home the truth of the existence of the One and Only True God, and that we should worship none but Him, that He was neither begotten nor does He beget, that we should associate none with Him. This was the message that was brought to mankind by Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Mohammed and many others (Peace be upon them all). Had it not been for them we would have continued in our folly of worshipping idols and other human beings etc. Therefore we have the highest regard for them (amongst human beings) and their teachings but we do not worship them. I hope all the above answers your question that gratitude to God first and then to those who brought you the message is the first step one can take in order to achieve bliss and no matter how good you are if you deny the Provider, you would be lost. Nima wrote: I don't fear hell as I have seen it personally in life a dif there is a mor terrible and agnoizin existence and I'm going there all because my good nature and good spirit is not enough for a deity then why am I prompted to believe in such a deity? Nima whatever you have seen of hell here are but tiny glimpses of the big picture. You may have seen volcanoes erupting and lava flowing, you may have seen the Tsunami, you may have seen the earthquakes � all on television. These are small reminders of the power of God and what one can expect when one denies His existence and associates anyone with Him, after the truth has reached them. It is easy to say that �I don�t fear hell�, but it is a lot more different there. As for me boiling water had scarred me a long time ago and I can never forget it. What if it was boiling oil? It would have been worse. But nothing can be worse than what we have been warned about and to prevent that God is not asking a lot. Just acknowledge His existence and live a righteous life. |
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Community
Guest Group Joined: 19 May 2005 Status: Offline Points: 1135 |
Posted: 18 December 2005 at 11:03pm |
Hell is a certainty, there is no point in fearing it. Rather fear Him who has power over all things and who created you out of nothing, leave those who try to instill fears in you as to make you accept their given way to safety. The only safety is with The Almighty, so seek a way to please Him, strive to achieve the eternal peace with Him through mending works. |
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gospelmap
Newbie Joined: 08 December 2005 Status: Offline Points: 25 |
Posted: 18 December 2005 at 11:57pm |
Hell is real.agreed.but ask yourself can you escape it with your own merits? Do you think God does nothing about sin when we cannot acutally pay the price thats so heavy? Does he merely keep watching and demanding that we pay its price when we cannot pay it? Oh ! if that is the faith you have where allah demands us like a cruel master and not a loving father to pay the heavy price which you and I cannot pay then who need such a faith? I look to Jesus who like a parent Jump into the water to save me when I dont know swimming.That is why he is the savior God who came to save us from the penalty of sin when we are not able to pay it. why not trust him now. |
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