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Maryga View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 December 2005 at 7:28pm

Gospelman thankyou for the information. In Islam we don�t force our agenda upon anyone nor are we aggressive in trying to convert anyone to Islam. We are not sly either by bribing all in the name of charity and then inject our agenda on the vulnerable.We simply convey the message and if a person is sincerely seeking the truth will come forward investigate and either accept it or reject it. The choice is upon the individual.

 

This discussion forum is entitled �ISLAM for Non-Muslims� not �Christianity for Muslims�. Despite that don�t you think it is very uncourteous rather rude to be pushing your agenda here? To top it you have the habit of aggressively propagating your beliefs by typing in bold bright red letters which I find very offensive.

 

The material you appear to be using for your propaganda seems to be coming from the Watchtower publications of New York where selective verses from the Qur�an are used to misguide Muslims to turn them away from Islam�s fundamental belief of the ONENESS OF GOD. Clearly those of you who have read the Qur�an know that there are many more verses that clearly denounce and condemn the association of anyone with God the Almighty. Why then do you neglect and pick and choose what suits you?  Not only that even what you have chosen to use, has also been manipulated to suit the beliefs of Christianity.

 

Gospelman earlier you or those who publish the literature you use believed in the concept of Trinity, but now you classify them as �Wrong Acts and False Beliefs of Judaism and Christendom�. May God guide you -  congratulations you have taken one step in the right direction. However, many Christians still continue to believe in the trinity and May God guide them all to the Right Path!

 

Since you have chosen to come on to Islamicity and on �Islam for Non-Muslims� let me tell you just three things why I believe you are wrong about Jesus:

 

  1. God the Creator of the Universe and everything beyond created everything living. He only needs say �BE� and it �IS�. While the parents value the birth of a child, we all know how painful, sickening and rather dirty is the process of childbirth. Where does the child come from at childbirth? Would God in all His Power and Magnanimity come to earth in that horrible way as we low human beings come? Did Mary have to put up for nine months and suffer the pangs of childbirth to give birth to God?  How demeaning is this? Glory to God. He is Far Far Above what you attribute to HIM.

  1. Christianity believes that man is born in sin and the blood of Jesus alone can cleanse him  This stems from the fact that Adam sinned therefore all man is born of sin. Here again a great injustice is attributed to God by attributing a sin to a new born child who has not committed any sin. This is akin to slavery in the past where the debts of the parents had to be repaid for by generations even though they in fact were not responsible for borrowing. This sort of injustice is attributed to God when God is the Greatest dispenser of Justice and is the Most Forgiving and Merciful!

  1. As a man of religion I assume you believe in the power of prayer. Muslims are required to pray five times a day and a minimum of 20 times a day practising Muslims pray to God to Guide them to the Right Path. Do you think that God does not listen to their constant pleas for the Right Guidance? How often do Christians seek God�s guidance � just on Sunday mornings? May be a few ignorant brainwashed ones. Others have simply left Christianity because your concepts make absolutely no sense.


Edited by Maryga
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gospelmap View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 December 2005 at 12:01am
Originally posted by Maryga Maryga wrote:

Gospelman thankyou for the information. In Islam we don�t force our agenda upon anyone nor are we aggressive in trying to convert anyone to Islam. We are not sly either by bribing all in the name of charity and then inject our agenda on the vulnerable.We simply convey the message and if a person is sincerely seeking the truth will come forward investigate and either accept it or reject it. The choice is upon the individual.

maryga greetings.thanks for the response.you are confusing gospelmap and gospelman-maybe some other ID of a person who might have provoked you.In chrsitianity too we dont force anyone. truth needs to be shared and most of the  times it pricks.after sharing the message,if a person come forward we too help them to grant them a personal relationship with god that comes through Jesus christ. no one force anyone in religions.bribing in the name of charity is mere allegations that you raised.there are both physical and spriitual needs of a person hence its we cater to them.God has commanded us to be both charitable and spiritual which is a part a our faith.

 

This discussion forum is entitled �ISLAM for Non-Muslims� not �Christianity for Muslims�. Despite that don�t you think it is very uncourteous rather rude to be pushing your agenda here? To top it you have the habit of aggressively propagating your beliefs by typing in bold bright red letters which I find very offensive.

The website is a forum and hence there are issues that are discussed here.the red font is for good readbility and for diffrenting between two writings just like yours and mine responses are seen clearly.

 

The material you appear to be using for your propaganda seems to be coming from the Watchtower publications of New York where selective verses from the Qur�an are used to misguide Muslims to turn them away from Islam�s fundamental belief of the ONENESS OF GOD. Clearly those of you who have read the Qur�an know that there are many more verses that clearly denounce and condemn the association of anyone with God the Almighty. Why then do you neglect and pick and choose what suits you?  Not only that even what you have chosen to use, has also been manipulated to suit the beliefs of Christianity.

 

I really dont know what you are talking about watchtower publications etc .I am an asian who came to know christ as my lord when God touched my life and transformed me in a dramatic way.regarding pick and choose and christian beliefs we can discuss what has been misleading and so dont just merely allege.

 

Gospelman earlier you or those who publish the literature you use believed in the concept of Trinity, but now you classify them as �Wrong Acts and False Beliefs of Judaism and Christendom�. May God guide you -  congratulations you have taken one step in the right direction. However, many Christians still continue to believe in the trinity and May God guide them all to the Right Path!

Again there is a clear cut misundersanding or misleading the readers here.I belive in trinity because the bible clearly implies it.the plurality yet oneness of Godhead is clealry understood from the bible.we dont belive in trinity as father son and mary as the quran tells us.its fully misleading and misunderstood things.we belive that God is one in essence and three persons are plurality is distinctly seen in Godhead.

 

Since you have chosen to come on to Islamicity and on �Islam for Non-Muslims� let me tell you just three things why I believe you are wrong about Jesus:

 

  1. God the Creator of the Universe and everything beyond created everything living. He only needs say �BE� and it �IS�. While the parents value the birth of a child, we all know how painful, sickening and rather dirty is the process of childbirth. Where does the child come from at childbirth? Would God in all His Power and Magnanimity come to earth in that horrible way as we low human beings come? Did Mary have to put up for nine months and suffer the pangs of childbirth to give birth to God?  How demeaning is this? Glory to God. He is Far Far Above what you attribute to HIM.

The above view of yours implies that human are nothing but a crap of bundle created only to bow in front of a God who is just a master and we like a slave.the bible exalts mankind saying we are made in his image(his divine nature) and is capable of relationship with him,but due to rebellion and disobedience we have tarnished our image- our nature.Since God is mighty and powerful he can decide to come in the image of a human bing that he has created by his spirit without being sinful with a special purpose.there is no demaning here.by saying that we actually deamean human and limit God .

 

 

 

  1. Christianity believes that man is born in sin and the blood of Jesus alone can cleanse him  This stems from the fact that Adam sinned therefore all man is born of sin. Here again a great injustice is attributed to God by attributing a sin to a new born child who has not committed any sin. This is akin to slavery in the past where the debts of the parents had to be repaid for by generations even though they in fact were not responsible for borrowing. This sort of injustice is attributed to God when God is the Greatest dispenser of Justice and is the Most Forgiving and Merciful!

scientifically and looking at reality we see that humans inherits the nature of their parents.we can see that in our day to day human existence.we see prophets confessing sins except Jesus who was sinless due to his virgin birth he did not took that fallen human nature.the human rebellion is seen in a child-parent relationship too.hence declaring a child sinless or pure is no spiritual insight but a mere legal pronouncement.Insisting that the penalty of sin can only be borne by oneself when we actually cannot pay it put God out as nothing but a cruel master.if God forgives sin without fulfilling its retributive justice,it caste doubt on God's justice and exalts the greusomeness of sin .The prophets of old performed symbolic substitutary sacrifices and can be studied in quran itself (sura 2:67-73 , 37:99-111)

 

 

  1. As a man of religion I assume you believe in the power of prayer. Muslims are required to pray five times a day and a minimum of 20 times a day practising Muslims pray to God to Guide them to the Right Path. Do you think that God does not listen to their constant pleas for the Right Guidance? How often do Christians seek God�s guidance � just on Sunday mornings? May be a few ignorant brainwashed ones. Others have simply left Christianity because your concepts make absolutely no sense.

Even praying 100 times holds no good if it is not addressed to the real God.Does anyones 20 times prayer that has no effect  nullify to  one time prayer that is effective and adressed to the real God?.Jesus said "Do not be like hypocrties who think they can be heard because of their many words. "

whats the point if the 20 times prayer gives no guidance? there are christians who pray once on sunday but there are also those who pray and fast many times in a year and not just on special occasion.the purpose of prayer is important than just bowing down before God like a slave.GoD's plan for you and me is to become his children and enjoy him and not slavery.

I pray God will help you as you read this. 



Edited by gospelmap
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 December 2005 at 12:05am

Originally posted by Maryga Maryga wrote:

Gospelman thankyou for the information. In Islam we don�t force our agenda upon anyone nor are we aggressive in trying to convert anyone to Islam. We are not sly either by bribing all in the name of charity and then inject our agenda on the vulnerable.We simply convey the message and if a person is sincerely seeking the truth will come forward investigate and either accept it or reject it. The choice is upon the individual.

maryga greetings.thanks for the response.you are confusing gospelmap and gospelman-maybe some other ID of a person who might have provoked you.In chrsitianity too we dont force anyone. truth needs to be shared and most of the  times it pricks.after sharing the message,if a person come forward we too help them to grant them a personal relationship with god that comes through Jesus christ. no one force anyone in religions.bribing in the name of charity is mere allegations that you raised.there are both physical and spriitual needs of a person hence its we cater to them.God has commanded us to be both charitable and spiritual which is a part a our faith.

 

This discussion forum is entitled �ISLAM for Non-Muslims� not �Christianity for Muslims�. Despite that don�t you think it is very uncourteous rather rude to be pushing your agenda here? To top it you have the habit of aggressively propagating your beliefs by typing in bold bright red letters which I find very offensive.

The website is a forum and hence there are issues that are discussed here.the red font is for good readbility and for diffrenting between two writings just like yours and mine responses are seen clearly.

 

The material you appear to be using for your propaganda seems to be coming from the Watchtower publications of New York where selective verses from the Qur�an are used to misguide Muslims to turn them away from Islam�s fundamental belief of the ONENESS OF GOD. Clearly those of you who have read the Qur�an know that there are many more verses that clearly denounce and condemn the association of anyone with God the Almighty. Why then do you neglect and pick and choose what suits you?  Not only that even what you have chosen to use, has also been manipulated to suit the beliefs of Christianity.

 

I really dont know what you are talking about watchtower publications etc .I am an asian who came to know christ as my lord when God touched my life and transformed me in a dramatic way.regarding pick and choose and christian beliefs we can discuss what has been misleading and so dont just merely allege.

 

Gospelman earlier you or those who publish the literature you use believed in the concept of Trinity, but now you classify them as �Wrong Acts and False Beliefs of Judaism and Christendom�. May God guide you -  congratulations you have taken one step in the right direction. However, many Christians still continue to believe in the trinity and May God guide them all to the Right Path!

Again there is a clear cut misundersanding or misleading the readers here.I belive in trinity because the bible clearly implies it.the plurality yet oneness of Godhead is clealry understood from the bible.we dont belive in trinity as father son and mary as the quran tells us.its fully misleading and misunderstood things.we belive that God is one in essence and three persons are plurality is distinctly seen in Godhead.

 

Since you have chosen to come on to Islamicity and on �Islam for Non-Muslims� let me tell you just three things why I believe you are wrong about Jesus:

 

  1. God the Creator of the Universe and everything beyond created everything living. He only needs say �BE� and it �IS�. While the parents value the birth of a child, we all know how painful, sickening and rather dirty is the process of childbirth. Where does the child come from at childbirth? Would God in all His Power and Magnanimity come to earth in that horrible way as we low human beings come? Did Mary have to put up for nine months and suffer the pangs of childbirth to give birth to God?  How demeaning is this? Glory to God. He is Far Far Above what you attribute to HIM.

The above view of yours implies that human are nothing but a crap of bundle created only to bow in front of a God who is jsut a master and we like a slave.the bible exalts mankind saying we are made in his image(his divine nature) and is capable of relationship with him,but due to rebellion and disobedience we have tarnished our image our nature.scientifically and looking at reality we see that humans inherits the nature of their parents.we can see that in our day to day human existence.we see prophets confessing sins except Jesus who was sinless due to his virgin birth he did not took that fallen human nature.the human rebellion is seen in a chid-parent relationship too.hence declaring a child sinless or pure is no spiritual insight but a mere legal pronouncement.Knowing why God added upoun himself that sinless human nature is what the bible explains.

 

 

 

  1. Christianity believes that man is born in sin and the blood of Jesus alone can cleanse him  This stems from the fact that Adam sinned therefore all man is born of sin. Here again a great injustice is attributed to God by attributing a sin to a new born child who has not committed any sin. This is akin to slavery in the past where the debts of the parents had to be repaid for by generations even though they in fact were not responsible for borrowing. This sort of injustice is attributed to God when God is the Greatest dispenser of Justice and is the Most Forgiving and Merciful!

scientifically and looking at reality we see that humans inherits the nature of their parents.we can see that in our day to day human existence.we see prophets confessing sins except Jesus who was sinless due to his virgin birth he did not took that fallen human nature.the human rebellion is seen in a child-parent relationship too.hence declaring a child sinless or pure is no spiritual insight but a mere legal pronouncement.Insisting that the penalty of sin can only be borne by oneself when we actually cannot pay it put God out as nothing but a cruel master.if God forgives sin without fulfilling its retributive justice,it caste doubt on God's justice and exalts the greusomeness of sin .The prophets of old performed symbolic substitutary sacrifices and can be studied in quran itself (sura 2:67-73 , 37:99-111)

 

 

  1. As a man of religion I assume you believe in the power of prayer. Muslims are required to pray five times a day and a minimum of 20 times a day practising Muslims pray to God to Guide them to the Right Path. Do you think that God does not listen to their constant pleas for the Right Guidance? How often do Christians seek God�s guidance � just on Sunday mornings? May be a few ignorant brainwashed ones. Others have simply left Christianity because your concepts make absolutely no sense.

Even praying 100 times holds no good if it is not addressed to the real God.Does anyones 20 times prayer that has no effect  nullify to  one time prayer that is effective and adressed to the real God?.Jesus said "Do not be like hypocrties who think they can be heard because of their many words. "

whats the point if the 20 times prayer gives no guidance? there are christians who pray once on sunday but there are also those who pray and fast many times in a year and not just on special occasion.the purpose of prayer is important than just bowing down before God like a slave.GoD's plan for you and me is to become his children and enjoy him and not slavery.

I pray God will help you as you read this. 

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pauline35 View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 December 2005 at 7:03am
Dear Gospelmap,

My questions are who wrote the bible? I believe Jesus was the second last prophet. But why is that Christian worship Jesus more than the GOD himself?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 December 2005 at 10:12am

Bismillah,

There are Christian Evangelists on the tv and radio here in America.  I do not want to come to an Islaamic website and see the same thing going on.  If you had questions about Islaam, we would gladly answer them. 

Mary gave you a great response, why did you tear it apart?  Don't you see that your proseltyzing is not appreciated here?  Why do you come to an Islaamic website to promote Christianity?  It's just rude.

Please stop posting any topics like this that are solely to promote your religion on a website for Muslims.

Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 December 2005 at 10:14am

Bismillah,

When I asked you a question, "why ... That is merely rhetorical.  In other words, don't answer; just stop it, please.

Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 December 2005 at 11:22pm

Originally posted by pauline35 pauline35 wrote:

Dear Gospelmap,

My questions are who wrote the bible? I believe Jesus was the second last prophet. But why is that Christian worship Jesus more than the GOD himself?

pauline,greetings.I really appreciate your question and indeed a truthful one.

The Bible is a greek word for "biblios" meaning books.hence its a collection of diffrent books written by various prophets,messengers and apostles etc. under the inspiration of the holy spirit. they were all written in its social,political,ethical and spiritual context.through that context God reveals himself-his divine attributes,dealings, nature , heart and his relationship with humankind. God spoke  through these prophets,messengers and apostles to address the issues pertaining life. They were spoken or verbal in nature in first instance and later they were written down to preserve what God acutally spoke regarding the past,present and the future and the way he dealt with people.God spoke to these prophets and messengers regarding the human nature and the solution that he offers. The new testament gospels also are narratives written by the apostles what they saw ,heard and taught from Jesus.(1 john 1:1-4) They memorised all that happenings to tell the world what actually transpired during Jesus time.Jesus never wrote any book but entrusted all to his followers of that century under the guidance of the holy spirit (the spirit of God) which he send after his ascension into heaven. hence even though  they were written by human hands as an eye witnesses  of the actual events they were under the inspiration and the power of the holy spirit.

Jesus said 12 "I have yet many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now.13 When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. 14 He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you. 15 All that the Father has is mine; therefore I said that he will take what is mine and declare it to you. ( john 16:12-15).

now your question of what makes us to wroship Jesus ?.we dont worship Jesus just because we think he is God but we worship him because he showed  us that he is God. the disciples of Jesus who were with him also testified that he is indeed the God who has come in human nature.

Jesus said anyone who has seen me has seen (God) the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'? .Jesus said �The Father and I are one (John 10:31-32 and 14:9).

 

"For in christ all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form,"(Col 2:9)

 

I come from a non christian background and had no peace in my life for many years though outwardly I seemed happy.I plunged into sin and guilt and fear of judgement. My personal sin left me with all that. since I knew God exist and he is a holy God the fear of life after death haunted me of hell and punishment. (If God is  merciful to forgive all sins that I did ,then he will remain only merciful and not holy and Just as he did nothing to deal with my sins ,but if he deals with it and forgives me then he is both just and merciful) My search ended in christ were I saw him both merciful and holy.On the cross of Jesus christ, God dealt with my sins and forgave me  of that sins.the moment I trusted Jesus as my lord and savior ,I felt as if a great burden of sin passing away.I felt life fully cleansed and got assured from his word that ALL MY SINS ARE FORGIVEN IN CHRIST AND THAT I HAVE AN ASSURED HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE.I am free of guilt and fear of judgement.that is the reason that I share this goodnews of God's love and justice with all of you so that you too can find that hope in him. Faith in christ Jesus  is not a conversion of an outward man made system or religion but an inward change of mind and acute joy of a relationship with God.since now I am born through the spirit of God , I can dare to call God my father not master.I can sit in his presence enjoying him and adoring him.

 

May you all find that great joy today.

 

Jesus said "I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life. .(Jn 5:24)

 

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pauline35 View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 December 2005 at 11:50pm
Dear Gospelmap,

Thank you for sharing the moment about Jesus. However, about the people whom written the Bible is kind of unconvincing and confusing because to Christian, the Bible was written by Prophets, messengers, apostles etc and that means many people had poured out their views and opinions into one bible. That also means that the bible was not word god alone but word of many selected people mostly Jews.

This is not conducive as it leads to many different churches like angelican, methodist, baptism etc. Especially angelican church, did Jesus ever said God allows the marriage of gays and lesbians? Why Christian think Jesus is God? I don't think God will ever reveals himself in the form of a human. If Jesus is God, and God is Jews, then this is not a religion for Asian as asians are not Jews.

Then Jesus is only God for the Jews.

Just my opinions.
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