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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Community Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 December 2005 at 6:43pm
Originally posted by Nima Nima wrote:

Thanks for the response all and to each I'll address to you by name

Community: Like some of the Muslims so far (with the exclusion of Ahmad Joyia) you don't seem to sound sincere in expressing your Islamic beliefs to your guest. Perhaps I guess you can't find sympathy online. I know a Muslim professor at my University who I talk to during our break hours and although he is sincere and very humble in his beliefs its obviously a bias belief for him to prove or to explain how I can find God past agnosticism. Again I wish all here would understand that what leads up to the truth of things are the experiences (or in mathematical terms, formulas). I would hope you all would respect that rather using insulting comments like sadden and using verses to thump the Agnosticism out of me.

?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Community Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 December 2005 at 7:01pm

" Islamic beliefs"

I try to trade beliefs for certainties. My faith is basically the wish to achieve peace with my creator, The Ultimate who is therefor One. My faith is submission for the sake of peace.(islaam)

If you wonder how does one achieve peace with The Creator, the answer is really simpel and i am sure you know it.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote herjihad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 December 2005 at 11:27pm

Bismillah,

Nima, 'Abeer's answer to your post was not correct for you as Brother Ahmad so kindly pointed out to you.  To further his point, and he or someone else can look this up for you, I am sure that I have read that people's good works will not go to waste, and that we will all be rewarded for them.  Now, many Muslims believe and enjoy believeing that lots of people will go to hell for different sins.  However, I am not one of those people.  I don't relish the thought of my personal enemies going to hell at all.  I strongly believe in Allah, SWT's Mercy and Kindness and Forgiveness and I trust that good actions will be rewarded by such a Just, Loving Creator.

Angela was showing kindness to you.  Why would you take that as an insult?  She didn't mean to insult you, so rethink her remarks again. 

There is a show called "Thinking Allowed" in which they had a three part series on Agnostic "beliefs".  There is a ironic, satirical "belief" system that agnostics developed many years ago.  It has Mother and Father God-like entitites and a long, complex story that goes with it.  Their point, however, is satirical and ironic, not true belief.

Sufi was upset about something else, or a few other things because he said so in another post on this forum.  It wasn't you.

Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nima Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 December 2005 at 2:31pm

Herjiha my apologies if you get any negative impressions, but I just wanted to get some type of understanding on the ethical aspects of Islam. Yes, of course I've heard of some Islamic philosophies on this issue but I wanted to get the people's view on this subject. As I mentioned by Sufi_Observer he made an observation of agnosticism and atheism in using the examples of those he knew. What I meant to say is that the observations are wrong.

To be a "spiritual atheist" is contradictory as Atheist deny any type of mysticism in nature of the universe. The agnostics dont deny but don't associate any theistic beliefs as well. Agnosticism primarily is the neutral approach to religious/spiritual subjects. As for Angela, Ms. Herjihad she made this comment:

"Where Athiests annoy me, agnostics sadden me."

First off why does it annoy/sadden someone against those who hold those personal beliefs? Well obviously it is of the opinions of that person who is sadden and annoyed by another's belief but what bothers me is that this is not the first time I've ran into this. Although it sounds sincere to you herjihad if you examine this comment "on the other end of the shoe" you'd find this offensive. Not everyone shares a monotheistic view or religious/spiritual view of life. I have been condemned and been called "sad" by fellow theologians at the university. The "sad" part about it is most f them are so-called Christians. I don't think Jesus told those whom he wished to convert that their belief was sad, but rather, took the philosophical approach on their beliefs and convinced them how their beliefs were not logical.

Today's evangelist or proseltizers are much more extreme today than they were 2,000 years ago. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote herjihad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 December 2005 at 2:51pm

Bismillah,

Nima, I am not very good at convincing people of things.  Really, I am not up to such a challenge.  I mean, I have a hard time "convincing" my kids to wear their jackets on a cold day!

But I can share my point of view.  However, this is a really long, complex topic with many twists and turns.  So, simply put, why not believe in God?  That's really my only thing I have for you to think about.  Why not?

Since you are an agnostic, does that mean that you believe in a superior power which created us, yes?  What is your view of this being who created us?  What interest does he/she/it have in us, if any?  How do you envision this entity's visage, character, scope of power? (You know, just to know where we are starting from.)

Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nima Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 December 2005 at 4:35pm
Honestly what I've seen through the world, through training and through battles myself I began to question whether God exist. Of course the usual battle would be to convince oneself if God allowed such occurences to happen. I believe the world has somewhat of a spiritual nature. I'm also willing to involve myself in accepting some theological arguments on God's existence. However on a religious scale to believe in God is to believe in religion and I'm a free thinker so I choose not to be religious. But the path to understanding this God is dififuclt.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Community Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 December 2005 at 6:38pm

If you know that there is always something greater and that He is greater, then i wonder wether you can ever truely understand Him who is greater then anything, even our understanding. (and i can assure you our understanding is really "undeveloped" or as some say "limited")

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nima Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 December 2005 at 8:30am

That is the whole point why religion turns me off to the whole concept. The sciences of temporality makes it difficult to prove the existence of God. I do not say that, by chance all things exist! What I say is that the formulation of certain beliefs is amazingly hard because a) either they are rleigiously motivated or by environment or b) there is a type of influence involved by a).

According to Islam even if I believe in one God yet, do not subscribe to a religious belief it is called an "invention" or I believe the Arabic term is Bid'ah. I find the approach hypocritical especially if the whole concept of Islam is monotheism this is the same with Christianity. As far as for Judaism what I've seen in their faith is that they don't hold any other religious faith in a type of "hell fire" light. They have certain rules from what I understand mankind can follow. these rules are 8 and basic and I guess follow from the Bible. From my understanding so long as you follow those simple 8 rules then you can share in the "world to come."

According to Muslims you have to be Muslim to go to heaven or even if not Muslim of the three monotheistic faiths. But Muslims fail to answer the question of those who do not share that faith. Why should I believe in God who at first was thoughtful enough to create me through the process of generation and then condemn me to hellfire because I don't want to share in "his" religion? Religion. How small of a word is that in comparison to God?

God in my opinion and understanding of course is beyond all human comprehension and although its possible that the world has a spiritual nature its hard when the world has thousands of religious institutions and all say they are right and the other goes to hell. HERES WHAT GETS ME ABOUT ISLAM.

God in Islam is all-merciful

But if I die and Islam is not my religion I go to hell regardless of my good deeds.

Mankind has freewill

But if I convert to Islam out of "fear" for this then my conversion is not sincere thus nullifying my conversion. If I don't convert then I'm condemned to hell if Islam is not my religion.

Yea like I wanna believe in a God like that!

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