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Can a non-muslim be the Mahdi?

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    Posted: 06 October 2014 at 8:47pm
Where the World and its people are today is exactly where we need to be, our predicament, our tribulation our quest is simply a part of the eternal story of God and his creation, his majesty in the infinite opportunity for the cosmic self to realise how magnificent Eternity is.

This is a predictable and prophesied story. It was foreseen and foretold that in order for the humble, gentle, kind, peaceful and meek majority of people to inherit the Earth.

It is also prophesied that a truly righteous judgement is needed to correct the political and religious leaders of the world who have brought us to the current state of inequity and injustice – because it was not God who caused this tribulation. It was the vain folly of Man as the Devil is truly in Man. Man has and always wanted to be God. History is littered with Men struck by the prophesied story and their attempt to influence Eternity. The Spirit of Truth has woven its vein through out history in a battle to realise the Eternal truth of the will of God. There is a level of consciousness that Man can attain which brings him so close to God that he without humility he starts to believe he is God. History has attempted to wean Man out of this vanity however in doing so Man has removed God from its core function and recompense.

Even though a judgement and a divine intervention and intercession were prophesied, it is not as many religious people expected. The fulfilment of the real prophecies is not about the rule of one World religion or one World government, and it has nothing to do with a “holy war” or magic or anything supernatural.

The fulfilment of prophecy is about truth, love, reason and justice overcoming false beliefs, hate, bigotry and injustice. And it is about the pen finally proving to be mightier than the sword.

The judgement and the fulfilment of prophecy is about the liberation and empowerment of the people, so that we may finally become the family of religions and races and nations with governments that will be truly of the people, by the people, and for the people.

The promised judgement helps us understand that only God the eternal, omnipresent Great redeemer reins Sovereign, above all human beings. It explains that the fulfilment of prophecy is to bring about a reformation of our religions and our governments so that they will use the common wealth for the common good, promote the general welfare, and ensure domestic tranquillity, pluralism and freedom of religions, equal rights and opportunities, and justice for all the people to move humanity into the vast expanse of the Universe to explore and add to the story of Eternity.

As was prophesied, while the messenger is rejected, spiritually blind leaders lead their blind flocks astray, and we are in this state of tribulation because the greatest refuge of a scoundrel is patriotism, and the greatest refuge of a hypocrite is religiosity. And the proud and militant, who have claimed that their religion or nation or race or culture is superior to all others, or that their wealth entitles them to rule, are all woefully wrong.

The scriptures of many religions speak of a coming leader who will consummate the fulfilment of the divine will on Earth. He will manifest in this person the righteousness and compassion of God, and he will bring about the final defeat of evil, and establish the Kingdom of Heaven on Earth. The Hebrew title Messiah–’Christ’ in Greek means “anointed one,” that person who will be specially chosen by God for this mission and empowered to accomplish it.

But while the term Messiah is specific to only a few religions, prophecies that a leader will come and accomplish such a mission are nearly universal.

Religions call him by various names: Jews long for the promised Messiah; for Christians the Messiah is Jesus of Nazareth, who has already come and ascended to heaven but will reappear (perhaps in a new guise) at his Second Coming. Muslims also expect the second advent of Jesus, who will come as a Muslim Imam, and among Shiite Muslims there are various expectations of a future Imam Mahdi. Buddhist sutras prophesy the coming of the Maitreya Buddha; Vaishnavite Hindu scriptures prophesy the future descent of an avatar named Kalki; Zoroastrian scriptures prophesy the coming of the Saoshyant; and some Confucian texts speak of a future True Man who will finally bring peace to the world by perfectly instituting the Way of Confucius.

Various prophecies of these religions are gathered, as follows;

“Surely I am coming soon.” Amen. Come, Lord Jesus!

Christianity. Revelation 22.20
—————————————————————

For to us a child is born,
to us a son is given,
and the government shall be upon his shoulder,
and his name shall be called
“Wonderful Counsellor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.”
Of the increase of his government and of peace
there will be no end,
upon the throne of David, and over his kingdom,
to establish it, and to uphold it
with justice and with righteousness,
from this time forth and for ever more.
The zeal of the Lord of hosts will do this.

Judaism and Christianity. Isaiah 9.6-7
—————————————————————

I saw in the night visions,
and behold, with the clouds of heaven
there came one like a son of man.
He came to the Ancient of Days
and was presented before him.
And to him was given dominion
and glory and kingdom,
that all peoples, nations, and languages
should serve him.
His dominion is an everlasting dominion,
which shall not pass away.
And his kingdom one
that shall not be destroyed.

Judaism and Christianity. Daniel 7.13-14
—————————————————————

Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of heaven will be shaken; then will appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory; and he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Christianity. Matthew 24.29-31
—————————————————————

In the time to come… the Patriarchs will say, “Ephraim, our righteous Messiah, though we are your ancestors, you are greater than we. For you have borne the sins of our children, and you have borne heavy punishments, such as neither the former nor the latter generations have endured, and you became the laughter and the mocking of all the nations for Israel’s sake, and you sat in darkness, and your eyes saw no light. And your skin shrank upon your bones, and your body withered like a tree, and your eyes grew dark from fasting, and your strength dried up like a potsherd, and all this befell you because of the sins of our children. Is it your will that your children should enjoy the felicity which God has destined to give them in abundance? Perhaps because of the pains which you have endured in overflowing measure for their sakes, and because thou hast lain fettered in prison, your mind is not at rest because of them?” Messiah will reply, “Patriarchs, all that I have done, I have done only for your sakes and for your children, and for your honour and theirs, so that they may enjoy the felicity which God has destined for them in abundance.” Then they reply, “May your mind be appeased, for you have appeased the mind of your Creator and our mind.”

Judaism. Midrash, Pesikta Rabbati 162b-63a
—————————————————————

And [Jesus] shall be a Sign of the Hour [of Judgment]; therefore have no doubt about it, but follow Me: this is a straight way.

Islam. Qur’an 43.61
—————————————————————

The Messenger of Allah observed, “What will be your state when the Son of Mary descends amongst you, and there will be an Imam amongst you? What would you do when the son of Mary would descend and lead you?”

Islam. Hadith of Muslim
—————————————————————

The Apostle of Allah said, “Were there remaining but one day of the duration of all time, God would send forth a man from the people of my house, who will fill the earth with equity as it has been filled with oppression.”

Islam. Hadith of Abu Dawud
—————————————————————

The Imam who will create a world state will make the ruling nations pay for their crimes against society. He will bring succour to humanity. He will take out the hidden wealth from the breast of the earth and will distribute it equitably amongst the needy deserving. He will teach you simple living and high thinking. He will make you understand that virtue is a state of character which is always a mean between the two extremes, and which is based upon equity and justice. He will revive the teaching of the Holy Qur’an and the traditions of the Holy Prophet after the world has ignored them as dead letters….

He will protect and defend himself with resources of science and supreme knowledge. His control over these resources will be complete. He will know how supreme they are and how carefully they will have to be used. His mind will be free from desires of bringing harm and injury to humanity. Such a knowledge to him will be like the property which was wrongly possessed by others and for which he was waiting for the permission to repossess and use.

He, in the beginning, will be like a poor stranger unknown and uncared for, and Islam then will be in the hopeless and helpless plight of an exhausted camel who has laid down its head and is wagging its tail. With such a start he will establish an empire of God in this world. He will be the final demonstration and proof of God’s merciful wish to acquaint man with the right ways of life.

Islam (Shiite). Nahjul Balagha, Khutba 141, 187
—————————————————————

He shall be the victorious Benefactor (Saoshyant) by name and World-renovator [Astavat-ereta] by name. He is Benefactor because he will benefit the entire physical world; he is World-renovator because he will establish the physical living existence indestructible. He will oppose the evil of the progeny of the biped and withstand the enmity produced by the faithful.

Zoroastrianism. Avesta, Farvardin Yast 13.129
—————————————————————

Whenever the Law declines and the purpose of life is forgotten, I manifest myself on Earth. I am born in every age to protect the good, to destroy evil, and to reestablish the Law.

Hinduism. Bhagavad Gita 4.7-8
—————————————————————

When the practices taught by the Vedas and the institutes of law shall nearly have ceased, and the close of the Kali age shall be nigh, a portion of that divine being who exists of his own spiritual nature in the character of Brahma, and who is the beginning and the end, and who comprehends all things, shall descend upon the Earth. He will be born as Kalki in the family of an eminent brahmin of Sambhala village, endowed with the eight superhuman faculties. By his irresistible might he will destroy all the barbarians and thieves, and all whose minds are devoted to iniquity. He will then reestablish righteousness upon earth; and the minds of those who live at the end of the Kali age shall be awakened, and shall be as pellucid as crystal. The men who are thus changed by virtue of that peculiar time shall be as the seeds of human beings, and shall give birth to a race who shall follow the laws of the Krita age, the Age of Purity. As it is said, “When the sun and moon, and the luner asterism Tishya, and the planet Jupiter, are in one mansion, the Krita age shall return.”

Hinduism. Vishnu Purana 4.24
—————————————————————

Thus have I heard: At one time the Buddha was staying near Kapilavatthu in the Banyan monastery on the bank of the river Rohani. Then the venerable Sariputta questioned the Lord about the future Conqueror,

The Hero that shall follow you,
The Buddha–of what sort will he be?
I want to hear of him in full.
Let the Visioned One describe him.

When he heard the elder’s speech the Lord spoke thus,

I will tell you, Sariputta;
listen to my speech.
In this auspicious aeon
Three leaders there have been:
Kakusandha, Konagamana,
and the leader Kassapa too.
I am now the perfect Buddha;
and there will be Maitreya too
before this same auspicious aeon
runs to the end of its years.

Buddhism. Anagata-vamsa
—————————————————————

In those days, brethren, there will arise in the world an Exalted One named Metteya. He will be an Arahant, Fully Awakened, abounding in wisdom and goodness, happy, with knowledge of the worlds, unsurpassed as a guide to mortals willing to be led, a teacher for gods and men, an Exalted One, a Buddha, even as I am now. He, by himself, will thoroughly know and see, as it were face to face, this universe, with its worlds of the spirits, its Brahm-as and its M-aras, and its world of recluses and brahmins, of princes and peoples, even as I now, by myself, thoroughly know and see them. The Law, lovely in its origin, lovely in its progress, lovely in its consummation, will he proclaim, both in the spirit and in the letter; the higher life will he make known, in all its fullness and in all its purity, even as I do now. He will be accompanied by a congregation of some thousands of brethren, even as I am now accompanied by a congregation of some hundreds of brethren.

Buddhism. Digha Nikaya iii.76, Chakkavatti Sihanada Suttanta
—————————————————————

Listen attentively with one heart. A man whose spirit shines brightly, a man whose mind is completely unified, a man whose virtue excels everyone–such a man will truly appear in this world. When he preaches precious laws, all the people will totally be satisfied as if the thirsty drink sweet drops of rain from heaven. And each and every one will attain the path of liberation from struggles.

Buddhism. Sutra of the Great Accomplishment of the Maitreya
—————————————————————

Miroku, the Great God, comes forth, endowed with the
great strength of the three in one–Fire, Water, Earth.
Miroku, the Great God, from of old has planted
heaven upon earth.
Miroku, the Great God, even as comes a thief,
has secretly been born below.
Leaving behind the highly exalted throne to bring
salvation, Miroku has been born below.

Sekai Kyusei Kyo. Inori-no-Shu
—————————————————————

Confucius said, “If a Kingly Man were to arise, within a single generation Goodness would prevail.”

Confucianism. Analects 13.12
—————————————————————

It is only the man with the most perfect divine moral nature who is able to combine in himself quickness of apprehension, intelligence and understanding–qualities necessary for the exercise of command, magnanimity, generosity, benignity, and gentleness–qualities necessary for the exercise of patience, originality, energy, strength of character, and determination–qualities necessary for the exercise of endurance, piety, noble seriousness, order, and regularity–qualities necessary for the exercise of dignity, grace, method, subtlety, and penetration–qualities necessary for the exercise of critical judgment.

Thus all-embracing and vast is the nature of such a man. Profound it is and inexhaustible, like a living spring of water, ever running out with life and vitality. All-embracing and vast, it is like Heaven. Profound and inexhaustible, it is like the abyss.

As soon as such a man shall make his appearance in the world, all people will reverence him. Whatever he says, all people will believe it. Whatever he does, all people will be pleased with it. Thus his fame and name will spread and fill all the civilized world, extending even to savage countries, wherever ships and carriages reach, wherever the labour and enterprise of man penetrate, wherever the heavens overshadow and the earth sustain, wherever the sun and moon shine, wherever frost and dew fall. All who have life and breath will honour and love him. Therefore we may say, “He is the equal of God.”

It is only he in this world, who has realized his absolute self, that can order and adjust the great relations of human society, fix the fundamental principles of morality, and understand the laws of growth and reproduction of the universe.

Now, where does such a man derive his power and knowledge, except from himself? How simple and self-contained his true manhood! How unfathomable the depth of his mind! How infinitely grand and vast the moral height of his nature! Who can understand such a nature except he who is gifted with the most perfect intelligence and endowed with the highest divine qualities of character, and who has reached in his moral development the level of the gods?

Confucianism. Doctrine of the Mean 31-32
—————————————————————

With this in mind and the many faiths and civilisations awaiting the fulfilment of prophesy, could a non-Muslim be the Mahdi, can both the Sunni interpretation of Christ to return be equally fulfilled as the Shia with their call for the Mahdi leader?

Yours in faith of the one and only God.

Optimal Unity
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote airmano Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 October 2014 at 6:02am
Quote Various prophecies of these religions are gathered, as follows;
“Surely I am coming soon.” Amen. Come, Lord Jesus
When is "soon"? All those who have given a more precise date have miserably failed in their prediction so far.

Greetings from Godot: Airmano

Edited by airmano - 15 October 2014 at 6:03am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Optimal Unity Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 October 2014 at 5:04pm
Originally posted by airmano airmano wrote:

Quote Various prophecies of these religions are gathered, as follows;
“Surely I am coming soon.” Amen. Come, Lord Jesus
When is "soon"? All those who have given a more precise date have miserably failed in their prediction so far.

Greetings from Godot: Airmano


I'd volunteer to be the Antichrist if only he would promise to turn up. It would be a mighty thing to be brought down by the saviour of mankind himself.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NABA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 October 2014 at 11:20pm
Jesus Christ (pbuh) will come back but not as prophet as an ummati under prophet Muhammad S.A.W(pbuh), because Allah in Quran in ch 33 v 40 says that prophet Muhammad S.A.W ( pbuh ) is not your father but he is khitabun Nabee which means last prophet, so Jesus Christ (pbuh) was the prophet of Allah.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Optimal Unity Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 October 2014 at 3:36pm
Originally posted by NABA NABA wrote:

Jesus Christ (pbuh) will come back but not as prophet as an ummati under prophet Muhammad S.A.W(pbuh), because Allah in Quran in ch 33 v 40 says that prophet Muhammad S.A.W ( pbuh ) is not your father but he is khitabun Nabee which means last prophet, so Jesus Christ (pbuh) was the prophet of Allah.


The only thing is I don't think Jesus would be impressed with the sate Islam is in to call himself Muslim, nor Christian for that matter of fact, the World is in chaos every religion I awaiting to be validated by his return, I am confident he would not pick a side, no matter what any book says.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kodoo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 October 2014 at 3:45am
Salam.

Welcome to the forum. I khope you like it here.

And sorry that I skimmed the post as it had few sources recorded in Islam (Holy Quran and sunni-shia hadith narrations). But, yes, as you said, people of all religions and faiths expect the saviour of the mankind.

Please see:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWWRBV19W1k

And I need to add that there, Muslims (except the Wahabi sect) believe in Imam Mahdi. Sunnis, shiites, sufis, etc. all believe in him. Because Prophetic narrations-prophecies regarding the 12 Imams/Leaders, the last of which being the Mahdi, is recorded in both sunni and shia hadith books. The difference is that shia and sufi Muslims have the names for twelve Imams and believe that the twelfth Imam; Mahdi, already came but is in occultation (he will reappear), whereas sunnis don't have any names for 12 Imams sadly, they don't know their Imams.

And I believe in 12 Imams, and accept the names that sufis and shias have, well the first eight of them. And I read their sayings in books such as, "Tuhaf al Uqoul". I suggest it.

But I don't believe in occultation. And I believe in Imam Mahdi appearing in the last age.

In any case, about the main question of the thread, I need to say that, I believe a non-Muslim can't be the Mahdi (guide of the nations).

Because, if a person believes in God, Prophethood (including its seal, Muhammad pbuh&hp) and Hereafter, he is a Muslim.

And, it is impossible that, God, whose decrees are logical, sends someone as a leader and guide to his servants and later sends someone else as the Mahdi (Mahdi means guide btw) who does not accept the previous guide(s). Thus, Imam Mahdi (peace be upon him) can't be among the people who do not accept the previous guides, such as Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him and his progeny). Thus, he can't be a non-Muslim; Jewish, Christian or anything. And he can't be a Muslim who does not accept the previous 11 Imams either.

I hope I make sense.

However, we can't say that, a person belonging a faith can't be the saviour of all faiths.

Lastly, Jesus and Mahdi are two different characters/movements which we believe, when they reappear, will act in harmony to establish peace and justice on earth.

Please listen to this real Christian brother:

http://www.nasrtv.com/modules/video/singlefile.php?cid=13&lid=8178

Welcome again to the forums. ma salam
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Optimal Unity Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 October 2014 at 5:00pm
Originally posted by kodoo kodoo wrote:

Salam.

Welcome to the forum. I khope you like it here.

And sorry that I skimmed the post as it had few sources recorded in Islam (Holy Quran and sunni-shia hadith narrations). But, yes, as you said, people of all religions and faiths expect the saviour of the mankind.

Please see:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWWRBV19W1k

And I need to add that there, Muslims (except the Wahabi sect) believe in Imam Mahdi. Sunnis, shiites, sufis, etc. all believe in him. Because Prophetic narrations-prophecies regarding the 12 Imams/Leaders, the last of which being the Mahdi, is recorded in both sunni and shia hadith books. The difference is that shia and sufi Muslims have the names for twelve Imams and believe that the twelfth Imam; Mahdi, already came but is in occultation (he will reappear), whereas sunnis don't have any names for 12 Imams sadly, they don't know their Imams.

And I believe in 12 Imams, and accept the names that sufis and shias have, well the first eight of them. And I read their sayings in books such as, "Tuhaf al Uqoul". I suggest it.

But I don't believe in occultation. And I believe in Imam Mahdi appearing in the last age.

In any case, about the main question of the thread, I need to say that, I believe a non-Muslim can't be the Mahdi (guide of the nations).

Because, if a person believes in God, Prophethood (including its seal, Muhammad pbuh&hp) and Hereafter, he is a Muslim.

And, it is impossible that, God, whose decrees are logical, sends someone as a leader and guide to his servants and later sends someone else as the Mahdi (Mahdi means guide btw) who does not accept the previous guide(s). Thus, Imam Mahdi (peace be upon him) can't be among the people who do not accept the previous guides, such as Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him and his progeny). Thus, he can't be a non-Muslim; Jewish, Christian or anything. And he can't be a Muslim who does not accept the previous 11 Imams either.

I hope I make sense.

However, we can't say that, a person belonging a faith can't be the saviour of all faiths.

Lastly, Jesus and Mahdi are two different characters/movements which we believe, when they reappear, will act in harmony to establish peace and justice on earth.

Please listen to this real Christian brother:

http://www.nasrtv.com/modules/video/singlefile.php?cid=13&lid=8178

Welcome again to the forums. ma salam
Salam, thank you for the welcome and your discussion points...

Indeed I have seen the video and I am well versed in the foundational beliefs of Islam, however I do not get bogged down in the details, this is not a time where details mean as much as when Muhammad (pbuh) was stating them, Islam, Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism are religions far removed from being close to the truth of Allah/God.

What I like to do when I see a difficult question like the one I presented is put my self in the shoes of th Mahdi even God at times and ask if I was the Mahdi what would I do and how would I see the World I was here to guide.

Would I condemn all the Christians?

Would I condemn all the Buddhists?

Would I condemn all the Hindus?

Would I condemn all the Zoroastrians?

Is only one of my religions the truth, why did I bother creating all of these religions if only one was the truth.

Now Muslims say we are the last we have the last Prophet who showed us the right path. Then why is Islam going against the path, why all the terror, killings, beheading and injustices to each other. No! There is something wrong with wanting to be right.

I would go as far as to say the greatest sin in this time is the ignorant desire to want to be right before God and his creation.

Muhammad (pbuh) came to unite the tribes and issue instruction, why would the Mahdi be any different, do you think he should take the same path as Muhammad (pbuh) certainly the need to unite humanity and provide guidance on how to reconcile this mess we are in would be part of his direction, but why would he tell 5 Billion people you were all wrong and all Muslims are right, that is definitely what is not going to happen, in fact all of humanity is wrong, as we would not be in the mess we are in otherwise.

That does not mean that the directions of Muhammad are not valid, it just means that Muhammad anointed all the holy books but did not understand them, you can not use the Torah and the Gospels without knowing their meaning.

I would go as far as to say you cannot truly submit to God until you state I believe in the one true God and Muhammad is his messenger. I believe in all the prophets and Christ the saviour.

So you see you can be the Mahdi and not be Muslim, being a Muslim is not by name or saying it is by the truth in your heart to recognise God and his will.

Thank you again for the welcome, I hope I can add to the conversation here...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NABA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 October 2014 at 3:38am
Optimal unity y u blame islam for crimes??to know islam read Quran, Allah in ch 5 v 32 of Quran says if you kill a human being unless for murder or for mischief in the land means as if you have killed whole humanity if you save an innocent human being means as if you have saved whole humanity.Prophet Muhammad S.A.W ( pbuh ) was illiterate so how he could read books???
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