War on Islam Not ISIS

Caringheart wrote: Greetings sultanmuradII,I think it is because they see this as the way of islam coming to power in the world.Again I say, this doesn't scare people?What is it exactly that is coming to power?

Greetings Caringheart,

Now this is a plausible reason, however there is more to this, such as e.g merely helping those who are being killed because they no longer wish to have tyranical regimes over them, especially for those who are syrians and Iraqis. However if one doesn't know what is coming to power then why should they be scared? These are also people who want a better life according to their religion. And if you come to aid the tyrants and also drop bombs day and night on their families then those people will realy hate you.

your peice about the 'whites who are also killed, playing the victim, and look how the red indians assimilated' is in my opinion shameful and lacks basic understanding, but here I don't want to divert the topic anymore.

sultanmuradII wrote: The reality of a hereafter is information received in revealed scriptures via Messengers from the creator of the universe, and so before questioning the 1001 things in the scriptures we need a basis to accept them in the first place ie the existence of the creator. I take it you would say there is no evidence for that, I would say to you the world around us is the evidence in that it is impossible to have been as it is with out a cause, and that cause is beyond time and palce and any limits, that much we can conclude just from rational assessment of our world. If there is a creator, then there atleast is the possibility of communication to mankind from him. Where do you stand in this argument thus far?

The concept of a "creator" is a fantasy created by the ignorant who had (and have) little understanding of physics and cosmology. It is no different from the beliefs of primitive man who prayed to the "Sun God" to ensure that the sun would rise in the morning. What's worse, is that this concept of a mythical creator has been further perverted (by all religions) into fabricated sets of directives aimed at consolidating and accumulating power and wealth into the hands of cynical rulers. They further perpetrate onto their ignorantly credulous followers the promise of paradise and fear of hell as a further mechanism of control.

As understanding of physics has advanced, religiosity has retreated. That is why fundamentalists, of all faiths, strive to ensure that their progeny is uneducated. We see this, for example, among the Hasidic Jews, the Amish, and the Taliban (although it seems that only the fundamentalist Muslims delight in blowing up schools).

You seem to want to accuse me of "hatred" towards Muslims. Perhaps you find that such accusations would help to justify the sort of violence urged in the Quran. But I don't hate Muslims at all. Rather I find fundamentalist Muslims to be pathetically ignorant and, too often, dangerously violent (ask the Yazidis, for just one of many examples).

It is the Quran that preaches intolerance and demands violence towards unbelievers. In contrast, nothing in my thinking demands that Christians, Jews, and others must convert, pay a tax, or die. Or be sold into slavery, like the Yazidis.

Edited by marcello - 13 October 2014 at 8:40am

marcello wrote: sultanmuradII wrote: The reality of a hereafter is information received in revealed scriptures via Messengers from the creator of the universe, and so before questioning the 1001 things in the scriptures we need a basis to accept them in the first place ie the existence of the creator. I take it you would say there is no evidence for that, I would say to you the world around us is the evidence in that it is impossible to have been as it is with out a cause, and that cause is beyond time and palce and any limits, that much we can conclude just from rational assessment of our world. If there is a creator, then there atleast is the possibility of communication to mankind from him. Where do you stand in this argument thus far? The concept of a "creator" is a fantasy created by the ignorant who had (and have) little understanding of physics and cosmology. It is no different from the beliefs of primitive man who prayed to the "Sun God" to ensure that the sun would rise in the morning. What's worse, is that this concept of a mythical creator has been further perverted (by all religions) into fabricated sets of directives aimed at consolidating and accumulating power and wealth into the hands of cynical rulers. They further perpetrate onto their ignorantly credulous followers the promise of paradise and fear of hell as a further mechanism of control. As understanding of physics has advanced, religiosity has retreated. That is why fundamentalists, of all faiths, strive to ensure that their progeny is uneducated. We see this, for example, among the Hasidic Jews, the Amish, and the Taliban (although it seems that only the fundamentalist Muslims delight in blowing up schools). You seem to want to accuse me of "hatred" towards Muslims. Perhaps you find that such accusations would help to justify the sort of violence urged in the Quran. But I don't hate Muslims at all. Rather I find fundamentalist Muslims to be pathetically ignorant and, too often, dangerously violent (ask the Yazidis, for just one of many examples). It is the Quran that preaches intolerance and demands violence towards unbelievers. In contrast, nothing in my thinking demands that Christians, Jews, and others must convert, pay a tax, or die. Or be sold into slavery, like the Yazidis.

You have still to present your thinking and all you have done so far is blindly attack things you don't understand. What little you did mention exposed your narrow mindedness, eg your, going nowhere, "do unto others... " criteria which had no answer for adultery nor treason. You showed a complete ignorance on the meaning of prayers to religious people, and now you think that Muslims have not studied physics or cosmology.

So still waiting read your view on the where the universe came from and why it is the way it is ie the origin of this world and us. I say that rationally there must be a ultimate causer/creator who is beyond time space and limitations. You say ....?

And since you care so much about taxation and people being killed you could explain your criteria on judging what one should do about enemy combatants and foreign occupiers, and a criteria for who decides who should be taxed and at what amount. But I have a feeling you might avoid presenting much on these topics from your posts thus far, but I hope that you are a thinking man and not full of it, and will engage.

sultanmuradII wrote: You have still to present your thinking and all you have done so far is blindly attack things you don't understand. What little you did mention exposed your narrow mindedness, eg your, going nowhere, "do unto others... " criteria which had no answer for adultery nor treason.

The Golden Rule says that we should treat adulterers the way we would want to be treated ourselves in that situation, i.e. we should butt out of their lives and leave it to those involved to deal with.  As for treason, nobody ever said that the Golden Rule was intended to cover criminal offences.  In that case, we have an inherent right to protect our own security; therefore any traitor who threatens our collective security should be punished.

So still waiting read your view on the where the universe came from and why it is the way it is ie the origin of this world and us. I say that rationally there must be a ultimate causer/creator who is beyond time space and limitations. You say ....?

It's a big question.  The science of cosmology proposes lots of interesting theories, but no one really knows.

Meanwhile, maybe you'd like to tell us where your God came from and why He is the way He is.