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IF, BUT & WHY

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Abu Loren View Drop Down
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    Posted: 06 July 2014 at 3:35am
There are billions of people who do not believe that the Prophet Mohammad (SalAllahu Alayhi Sallam) is a Prophet of God Almighty and that he received the Final Revelation to mankind from God Almighty through the Archangel or The Spirit Jibril (Alayhi Salaam). This is to be expected as Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala Himself tells us in the Qur'an that the majority of mankind will not believe and that they are heading for hell fire.

This should not upset the true believers in Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala because all this is beyond our control and should leave it to Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala to do as He pleases. We cannot guide anyone, it is He Who guides whom He Wills.

A question all non believers should ask themselves is, why would Prophet Mohammad (SalAllahu Alyhi Sallam) include all the previous Messengers and Prophets in his Qur'an if indeed he invented it? For one thing the Jews and Christians of the time were almost enemies and they did not freely mix with each other. Another thing was that it was a good opportunity to make the Jews and Christians further alienated by claiming exclusivity. He invited them to the New Covenant but it was they who refused. If Prophet Mohammad (SalAllahu Alayhi Salaam) invented the Qur'an then it was a great opportunity to unite All the Arabs against their neighbours, but instead he invited them.

If you look at Islam without prejudiced yes you will see that Islam is not a new religion invented by Prophet Mohammad (SalAllahu Alayhi Wa Sallam) but a continuation of the ONLY religion that has been authorised by Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala.

When a Muslim tells a non-believer that the first Muslim was Adam (Alayhi Salaam) they are bewildered as if a great lie has just been said. It is easy to believe this if you logic and reason. When the Jinn and mankind were sent down to earth, Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala gave instructions to Adam (Alayhi Salaam) in how to live a holy and pious life. After a while the descendants of Adam (Alayhi Salaam) forgot the message and followed the inclinations of satan and his army. All the Prophets of God following each other came with the same message, that is to worship Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala alone and not to associate partners to him. Those people who caused corruption in the land were destroyed until Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala decreed that He will not destroy any more nations until the Last Day.

So if Prophet Mohammad (SalAllahu Alayhi Wa Sallam) was a charlatan as most, if not all, of the non beliers claim then it was his opportunity to widen the gap between the Jews, Christians and the Arabs. Instead he tried to unite them in one religion because this was the decree of Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala Lord of the heavens and the earth and all that is in between.

All we can do is to pray to Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala to give these misguided people guidance and In Shaa Allah they will be guided to the Straight Path that leads to Paradise.

Alhamdulilahil Rabbil Alamin ArRahmanir Rahim

Sahih International

The revelation of the Qur'an is from Allah , the Exalted in Might, the Wise. 39:1

The revelation of the Book is from Allah , the Exalted in Might, the Knowing. 40:2

[This is] a revelation from the Entirely Merciful, the Especially Merciful - 41:2

Thus has He revealed to you, [O Muhammad], and to those before you - Allah , the Exalted in Might, the Wise. 42:3


The revelation of the Book is from Allah , the Exalted in Might, the Wise. 45:2

The revelation of the Book is from Allah , the Exalted in Might, the Wise. 46:2




Edited by Abu Loren - 06 July 2014 at 12:50pm
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Lachi View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lachi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 July 2014 at 5:26am
Well said. Satan was the first sinner created by Allah. Adam was the first sinner to follow Satan. All of Adam's descendants are followers of Satan. Only the sons of God and their children can rise above the sinful din of Satan that fills their ears, and hear the true words of Allah and be saved. These are the Prophets. Mohammed knew that there was truth within the Gospels and the Torah for he heard their message.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Abu Loren Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 July 2014 at 12:26pm
Originally posted by Lachi Lachi wrote:

Well said. Satan was the first sinner created by Allah. Adam was the first sinner to follow Satan. All of Adam's descendants are followers of Satan. Only the sons of God and their children can rise above the sinful din of Satan that fills their ears, and hear the true words of Allah and be saved. These are the Prophets. Mohammed knew that there was truth within the Gospels and the Torah for he heard their message.


You are now really starting to be very annoying.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Caringheart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 July 2014 at 4:38pm
Originally posted by Abu Loren Abu Loren wrote:


A question all non believers should ask themselves is, why would Prophet Mohammad (SalAllahu Alyhi Sallam) include all the previous Messengers and Prophets in his Qur'an if indeed he invented it? For one thing the Jews and Christians of the time were almost enemies and they did not freely mix with each other. Another thing was that it was a good opportunity to make the Jews and Christians further alienated by claiming exclusivity. He invited them to the New Covenant but it was they who refused. If Prophet Mohammad (SalAllahu Alayhi Salaam) invented the Qur'an then it was a great opportunity to unite All the Arabs against their neighbours, but instead he invited them.

Greetings Abu Loren,

What you have to remember is that Muhammad's message changed over time.  Have you ever taken the time to study the qur'an in its chronological order?
Muhammad was accepted as an honorable man and mediator in Yathrib, and he became a respected leader there. He likely believed this meant he would also be accepted as prophet and when he was not his messages began to take a different shape.  In the early days under his leadership, I am sure Muhammad thought he could bring together all the people under the canopy of one religion.

asalaam,
Caringheart
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever
"I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Caringheart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 July 2014 at 4:53pm
Originally posted by Abu Loren Abu Loren wrote:


When a Muslim tells a non-believer that the first Muslim was Adam (Alayhi Salaam) they are bewildered as if a great lie has just been said. It is easy to believe this if you logic and reason. When the Jinn and mankind were sent down to earth, Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala gave instructions to Adam (Alayhi Salaam) in how to live a holy and pious life. After a while the descendants of Adam (Alayhi Salaam) forgot the message and followed the inclinations of satan and his army. All the Prophets of God following each other came with the same message, that is to worship Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala alone and not to associate partners to him. Those people who caused corruption in the land were destroyed until Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala decreed that He will not destroy any more nations until the Last Day.


I have often pondered how it was possible for Adam and Eve, and the generations after them to have forgotten their Creator, whom they walked with at one time, in the garden made for them.  I even had a conversation with a Catholic priest once asking about it.  I guess I didn't get sufficient answer because it is still a question in my mind, which leads me to ponder if the story of Adam and Eve may be just a tale created by early man to explain his existence.  Or is it, that when they were separated from their Creator they also lost all memory of their time with Him... the penalty and/or consequence of sin.  And then as time went on, perhaps the Creator saw the need to call them back to Himself... to once again reveal Himself... or perhaps the knowledge was always there waiting to be awakened and understood...
'those things which are manifest at birth'

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them...


All civilizations seem to have begun with a belief in many gods(pagan, or nature, culture).  Gods that explained the forces which they had no explanation for... the volcano's, the whirlwinds(tornado's), floods, lightning, rain, rising of sun and moon, the oceans waves.... etc., etc.
Mother nature, Father time, the spirit of the wind... and so forth...

As I have studied ancient religion, it seems that the first appearance of the concept of one God was with either the Pharaoh Ahkenaten, or from the Hebrew writings.  I have contemplated about which may have come first.  I am not sure the date of the first Hebrew writings, so I don't know if their stories were influenced by their time in Egypt and by the Pharaoh Ahkenaten, or if their stories came prior to the Pharaoh and he was influenced by them.


Edited by Caringheart - 06 July 2014 at 4:59pm
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever
"I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Abu Loren Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 July 2014 at 3:19am
Originally posted by Caringheart Caringheart wrote:

Originally posted by Abu Loren Abu Loren wrote:


A question all non believers should ask themselves is, why would Prophet Mohammad (SalAllahu Alyhi Sallam) include all the previous Messengers and Prophets in his Qur'an if indeed he invented it? For one thing the Jews and Christians of the time were almost enemies and they did not freely mix with each other. Another thing was that it was a good opportunity to make the Jews and Christians further alienated by claiming exclusivity. He invited them to the New Covenant but it was they who refused. If Prophet Mohammad (SalAllahu Alayhi Salaam) invented the Qur'an then it was a great opportunity to unite All the Arabs against their neighbours, but instead he invited them.

Greetings Abu Loren,

What you have to remember is that Muhammad's message changed over time.  Have you ever taken the time to study the qur'an in its chronological order?
Muhammad was accepted as an honorable man and mediator in Yathrib, and he became a respected leader there. He likely believed this meant he would also be accepted as prophet and when he was not his messages began to take a different shape.  In the early days under his leadership, I am sure Muhammad thought he could bring together all the people under the canopy of one religion.

asalaam,
Caringheart


This is expected from you as you don't believe the revelation he received is from Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala.
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Abu Loren View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Abu Loren Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 July 2014 at 3:29am
Originally posted by Caringheart Caringheart wrote:


I have often pondered how it was possible for Adam and Eve, and the generations after them to have forgotten their Creator, whom they walked with at one time, in the garden made for them.  I even had a conversation with a Catholic priest once asking about it.  I guess I didn't get sufficient answer because it is still a question in my mind, which leads me to ponder if the story of Adam and Eve may be just a tale created by early man to explain his existence.  Or is it, that when they were separated from their Creator they also lost all memory of their time with Him... the penalty and/or consequence of sin.  And then as time went on, perhaps the Creator saw the need to call them back to Himself... to once again reveal Himself... or perhaps the knowledge was always there waiting to be awakened and understood...
'those things which are manifest at birth'

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them...

You see your precept from the beginning is wrong. Adam and Eve (Sallatul Alayhi Salaam) did not forget God Almighty but their descendents. They taught their offspring everything about God Almighty and how to worship Him etc. As time went on satan started to influence them and they forgot about Allah Aubhana Wa Ta'ala and then they started to worship idols and other man made deities.

People like you and TG12345 are not true Christians as you claim to be. Surely, as a Christian you are supposed to believe in the first man and woman to be created by God Almighty? TG12345 had a problem believing in Prophet Musa (Alayhi Salaam) and Pharaoh.

Originally posted by Caringheart Caringheart wrote:


All civilizations seem to have begun with a belief in many gods(pagan, or nature, culture).  Gods that explained the forces which they had no explanation for... the volcano's, the whirlwinds(tornado's), floods, lightning, rain, rising of sun and moon, the oceans waves.... etc., etc.
Mother nature, Father time, the spirit of the wind... and so forth...



This is the reason they went astray by creating their own god other than the One True God. The message over time is corrupted and satan plants doubts in the minds of the people and they go astray.

Originally posted by Caringheart Caringheart wrote:


As I have studied ancient religion, it seems that the first appearance of the concept of one God was with either the Pharaoh Ahkenaten, or from the Hebrew writings.  I have contemplated about which may have come first.  I am not sure the date of the first Hebrew writings, so I don't know if their stories were influenced by their time in Egypt and by the Pharaoh Ahkenaten, or if their stories came prior to the Pharaoh and he was influenced by them.


Again, you are not a true Christians if you are believing in this tripe. This really shows that you DO NOT believe that the Bible is the inerrant words of God. You are not a true Christian but a pretend one.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Caringheart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 July 2014 at 11:31am
Originally posted by Abu Loren Abu Loren wrote:

Originally posted by Caringheart Caringheart wrote:


I have often pondered how it was possible for Adam and Eve, and the generations after them to have forgotten their Creator, whom they walked with at one time, in the garden made for them.  I even had a conversation with a Catholic priest once asking about it.  I guess I didn't get sufficient answer because it is still a question in my mind, which leads me to ponder if the story of Adam and Eve may be just a tale created by early man to explain his existence.  Or is it, that when they were separated from their Creator they also lost all memory of their time with Him... the penalty and/or consequence of sin.  And then as time went on, perhaps the Creator saw the need to call them back to Himself... to once again reveal Himself... or perhaps the knowledge was always there waiting to be awakened and understood...
'those things which are manifest at birth'

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them...

You see your precept from the beginning is wrong. Adam and Eve (Sallatul Alayhi Salaam) did not forget God Almighty but their descendents. They taught their offspring everything about God Almighty and how to worship Him etc. As time went on satan started to influence them and they forgot about Allah Aubhana Wa Ta'ala and then they started to worship idols and other man made deities.

People like you and TG12345 are not true Christians as you claim to be. Surely, as a Christian you are supposed to believe in the first man and woman to be created by God Almighty? TG12345 had a problem believing in Prophet Musa (Alayhi Salaam) and Pharaoh.

Originally posted by Caringheart Caringheart wrote:


All civilizations seem to have begun with a belief in many gods(pagan, or nature, culture).  Gods that explained the forces which they had no explanation for... the volcano's, the whirlwinds(tornado's), floods, lightning, rain, rising of sun and moon, the oceans waves.... etc., etc.
Mother nature, Father time, the spirit of the wind... and so forth...



This is the reason they went astray by creating their own god other than the One True God. The message over time is corrupted and satan plants doubts in the minds of the people and they go astray.

Originally posted by Caringheart Caringheart wrote:


As I have studied ancient religion, it seems that the first appearance of the concept of one God was with either the Pharaoh Ahkenaten, or from the Hebrew writings.  I have contemplated about which may have come first.  I am not sure the date of the first Hebrew writings, so I don't know if their stories were influenced by their time in Egypt and by the Pharaoh Ahkenaten, or if their stories came prior to the Pharaoh and he was influenced by them.


Again, you are not a true Christians if you are believing in this tripe. This really shows that you DO NOT believe that the Bible is the inerrant words of God. You are not a true Christian but a pretend one.

Greetings Abu Loren,

There is no historical/archaeological evicdence for the story of Moses and Pharaoh, and how the Hebrews were led out of captivity... or even any evidence of their captivity... so we do not know where these stories came from... if they were merely fables told to the Hebrew people to encourage them... to convince them to follow the rules of their leader Moses.  Of course this would mean negating the ten commandments as being from God also, and I do believe in the ten commandments... but as far as having the true and accurate story of Moses?  So I question all these things as well.  The Hebrews are known as great story tellers.  They use stories to illustrate important lessons... just as Yshwe used parables to teach.

Yshwe apparently never denied anything about the Hebrew stories... so that adds credence.

Smile  I have always said that I do not believe in 'religion'.  This does not mean I am 'not a true Christian'.  I believe in the teachings of Yshwe.  I follow Him and His teachings.  I believe the scriptures are writings by men inspired by God... in true communion with the Spirit of God.  This is a concept not easy for everyone to understand... but when God speaks to the soul, it is understood... the writing is then not your own, but inspired of Him and His higher Wisdom.

The people who are not the people of God are those that are caught up in religiosity... religious doctrine... with appearances... and those that believe they are 'good'... rather than knowing what it is to be seeking communion with God, and seeking His guidance...

this is why Yshwe condemned the Pharisees... they were not lovers of God, but lovers of themselves and their positions... they only knew their laws... and were only concerned with the imposition of laws on people rather than with extending the Love of God to them.

A true Christian is one who seeks God, and extends Love...
and only God has authority to judge the heart and the actions. Smile

asalaam,
Caringheart

note:  I hope you take the time to do some research about the things I mention... the chronological qur'an, Yathrib and Muhammad's arrival there... about the Pharaoh Ahkenaten.  It is all very interesting.  Salaam and blessings to you.


Edited by Caringheart - 07 July 2014 at 11:43am
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever
"I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis
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