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Prophecy

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Abu Loren View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Abu Loren Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Prophecy
    Posted: 20 June 2014 at 3:04am
I'd like to ask non Muslims on this forum about a Prophecy from Prophet Muhammad (SalAllahu Alayhi Wa Sallam) and ask if it has come to pass. The bit I'm concerned with will be highlighted.

It was narrated that Abu Hurairah and Abu Dharr said:

"The Messenger of Allah [SAW] would sit among his Companions and if a stranger came, he would not know which of them was he (the Prophet [SAW]) until he asked. So we suggested to the Messenger of Allah [SAW] that we should make a dais for him so that any stranger would know him if he came to him. So we built for him a bench made of clay on which he used to sit. (One day) we were sitting and the Messenger of Allah [SAW] was sitting in his spot, when a man came along who was the most handsome and good-smelling of all people, and it was as if no dirt had ever touched his garments. He came near the edge of the rug and greeted him, saying: 'Peace be upon you, O Muhammad!' He returned the greeting, and he said: 'Shall I come closer, O Muhammad?' He came a little closer, and he kept telling him to come closer, until he put his hands on the knees of the Messenger of Allah [SAW]. He said: 'O Muhammad, tell me, what is Islam?' He said: 'Islam means to worship Allah and not associate anything with Him; to establish Salah, to pay Zakah, to perform Hajj to the House, and to fast Ramadan.' He said: 'If I do that, will I have submitted (be a Muslim)?' He said: 'Yes.' He said: 'You have spoken the truth,' we found it odd. He said: 'O Muhammad, tell me, what is faith?' He said: 'To believe in Allah [SWT], His Angels, the Book, the Prophets, and to believe in the Divine Decree.' He said: 'If I do that, will I have believed?' The Messenger of Allah [SAW] said: 'Yes.' He said: 'You have spoken the truth.' He said: 'O Muhammad, tell me, what is Al-Ihsan?' He said: 'To worship Allah [SWT] as if you can see Him, for although you cannot see Him, He can see you.' He said: 'You have spoken the truth.' He said: 'O Muhammad, tell me about the Hour.' He lowered his head and did not answer. Then he repeated the question, and he did not answer. Then he repeated the question (a third time) and he did not answer. Then he raised his head and said: 'The one who is being asked does not know more than the one who is asking. But it has signs, by which it may be known. When you see the herdsmen competing in building tall buildings, when you see the barefoot and naked ruling the Earth, when you see a woman giving birth to her mistress. Five things which no one knows except Allah [SWT]. Verily, Allah, with Him (alone) is the knowledge of the Hour up to His saying: 'Verily, Allah is All-Knower, All-Aware (of things).' Then he said: 'No, by the One who sent Muhammad with the truth, with guidance and glad tidings, I did not know him more than any man among you. That was Jibril, peace be upon you, who came down in the form of Dihyah Al-Kalbi.'"

 

Reference

 : Sunan an-Nasa'i 4991

In-book reference

 : Book 47, Hadith 7



In another translation the word herdsman has been substituted with Bedouin.
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Ron Webb View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ron Webb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 June 2014 at 6:36am
I don't see herdsmen building tall buildings.  I don't see the barefoot and naked ruling the earth, either.  I see rich capitalists doing these things, and I don't expect that to change. I'd say Muhammad got it wrong.
Addeenul ‘Aql – Religion is intellect.
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Eoah View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eoah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 June 2014 at 12:27am
Greetings brothers and sisters. Love.

These things that Prophet Mohammed has said is perhaps like when we say, "And pigs will fly!", indicating the improbabiblity of the question.

Perhaps it is Prophet Mohammeds' way of saying "Don't ask me.  I am not God".
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Abu Loren View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Abu Loren Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 June 2014 at 3:33am
For those of you who just do not understand or have been living in a closet for years, Dubai currently has the tallest building in the world. However, Saudi Arabia is now considering/planning/building another tall building to beat Dubai.

One could say both people are descendants of herdsmen or Bedouins. That's what the Hadith is about.
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Ron Webb View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ron Webb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 June 2014 at 4:34am
Originally posted by Abu Loren Abu Loren wrote:

One could say both people are descendants of herdsmen or Bedouins. That's what the Hadith is about.

I suppose we're all descendants of herdsmen if you trace your geneology back far enough, but that's not what the hadith says.
Addeenul ‘Aql – Religion is intellect.
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islamispeace View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote islamispeace Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 June 2014 at 11:52am
Originally posted by Ron Webb Ron Webb wrote:

I don't see herdsmen building tall buildings.  I don't see the barefoot and naked ruling the earth, either.  I see rich capitalists doing these things, and I don't expect that to change. I'd say Muhammad got it wrong.


As usual, Ron missed the point!  The prophecy foretold that people would build tall buildings.  This has come to pass! 

Ron's best argument is that "well, it didn't exactly happen as Muhammad foretold it."  Of course, he has no explanation for how Muhammad (peace be upon him) knew that 1400 years after him, people would build tall buildings!

Now, with regard to the alleged absence of the "herdsmen" that Ron is so uptight about, the plain fact is that he again missed the point.  Classical Islamic scholars, who lived centuries before the tall buildings were built, interpreted the reference to "herdsmen" to mean that the once poor Arabs would become rich and powerful.  For example, Imam Nawawi stated:

"The people of badi'a (the desert bedouins) and their like are indigent.  There will come a time in which they become rich and build such structures to demonstrate their wealth." (As quoted by Shaykh Muhammad Hisham Kabbani in "The Approach of Armageddon?  An Islamic Perspective", p. 92)

Similar statements were made by such scholars as Tabarani and Qurtubi (ibid.).

So, what the prophecy stated was that a time would come when the once poor Arabs would become so wealthy that they would use their wealth to build tall structures.  This is happening as we speak.  Alhamdulillah!

There are many other prophecies that we can consider.  If Ron is up to it, I can mention some more.  Big%20smile
Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)

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Lachi View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lachi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 June 2014 at 2:54pm
So it's not the prophecy that has come true, but the interpretation of it by Imam Nawawi?
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islamispeace View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote islamispeace Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 June 2014 at 3:15pm
Originally posted by Lachi Lachi wrote:

So it's not the prophecy that has come true, but the interpretation of it by Imam Nawawi?


Oh brother...Ermm

No Lachi.  You missed the point as well.  The point was that Muslims have believed from the start that the prophecy foretold the coming of a time when the poor Arabs would become so wealthy that they would compete with each other in the building of tall structures.  Unless you have been living in a cave for the past few years, you would see this happening as we speak.

Ron (and it seems you as well) was unable to realize that the reference to the "herdsmen" was a prophecy in itself in that it foretold their change in fortune from poor "herdsmen" into "rich capitalists" as Ron put it.  This is how Muslims have interpreted the hadith, long before these events came to pass.  In fact, another hadith of the Prophet mentioned by the scholar Tabarani stated:

"[o]ne of the signs of the change of the Religion is the affectation of eloquence by the rabble and their betaking to palaces in big cities."     

If the "rabble" take to "palaces in big cities", what is this a reference to other than their reversal of fortune?  Surely, poor people would not "betake to palaces".  Only rich people do that.  Think about it... 
Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)

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