American Troops in Iraq

Or is this the thread i ran from according to you Whisper, see they all look similar to me.

"The link with OBL is a dead duck"

It's true, that's the conventional liberal  and crammed-down-our-thoats wisdom.  It's clear upon reading and research that Saddam and Muslim extremists were much cozier and complicit and collaborative (for mutually beneficial reasons) than anyone on the left would care to talk about...

I and many others choose not to disregard this context.

"Um, Bruce, Saddam Hussein had nothing to do with 9/11."

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Um, Angela, no one has proven that Saddam had operational links to 9/11.  But does that mean that he did not?  He has been proven to (1) oppose the US by sponsoring terrorism against the US abroad (for instance in Prague at the Voice of America facilities), in opposing the US and the world in 1991 and thereafter, in trying to assassinate a sitting US president, et al.  Furthermore, it is clear that Saddam had extensive ties with Islamic terrorist groups, including al Qaeda.  There are many detailed instances of his potential ties with the planners and perpetrators of 9/11.  None of these have been conclusively proven and so you want to blithely lecture me on how ridiculous this notion is?

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First of all there is no conclusive, OPERATIONAL link between Saddam and AQ re: 9/11 but there is enough evidence that exists that such a connection cannot be blithely dismissed.  And in fact the 9/11 commission has not done so, only stating that no operational connection has been proven.  There is much question about Muhammed Atta's movements among Iraqi intelligence agents in Prague, though, and other interactions between terrorists and the Iraqi intelligence service in Malaysia in 1999 - specifically the actions of Ahmed Hikmat Shakir.  Shakir is Iraqi.

From The Connection by Stephen Hayes of the Weekly Standard:

The NSA intercepted communications from Nawaf al Hazmi and Khalid al Mihdhar related to the AQ attacks on the US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania from which they determined that those involved in those bombings were going to be meeting with Shakir and others in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia just after the millennium new year.  This meeting, in a Kuala Lumpur condo jointly monitored by the CIA and the Malaysian intel was the main planning session for the October 12, 2000 bombing of the USS Cole and for the attacks on September 11 (according to the CIA).  The latter two men left the Kuala Lumpur area and went to Thailand, where warnings to follow through with them, to follow them, came too late and they disappeared into that country in early 2000.

On September 11, 2001 Nawaf al Hazmi and Khalid al Mihdhar, along with others hijacked Flight 77 that hit the Pentagon.

Shakir was arrested in Qatar 6 days later.

Among Shakir's contacts were Zahid Sheidh Mohammed, the brother of 9/11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed; Musab Yasin, the brother of the of the 1993 WTC bomber Abdul Rahman Yasin, who was harbored in Iraq for a decade after that attack (that killed six Americans) and Ibrahim Ahmad Suleinman, a US citizen born in Kuwait, whose fingerprints were found on the bomb-making manuals authorities found after the 1993 WTC attack.  One contact stood out of Shakir's as a special indication of his standing with AQ.  A phone number for Mamdouh Mahmud Salim.  The number reached a desk at Taba Investments, perhaps the best-known of Osam bin Laden's al Qaeda front companies.  Mamdouh Salim, a founding member of al Qaeda, was described by another senior al Qaeda operative as OBL's "best friend."

[The preceding information reflects the consensus of the US intelligence community.  Virtually no one disputes the details.  The next part is where intense debate arises.]

Despite Shakir's connections with dangerous terrorists, the Qatari government released him.  On Oct. 21st Shakir boarded a plane bound for Baghdad.  But he was detained by Jordanian intel at his connection in Amman.  Immediately following his capture there, the Iraqi government began exerting pressure on the Jordanians to release him.

Some in the CIA point to a flurry of phone calls, diplomatic cables, and personal appeals from the Iraqi government to the Jordanians and contend that this reaction was anything but typical. This concern reflected an interest in Shakir at the highest levels of Saddam Hussein's regime.  CIA interrogators in Jordan concluded that his evasive answers reflected counterinterrogation techniques so sophisticated that they likely had been learned from a government intelligence service.  Shakir's nationality, his contacts with the Iraqi embassy in Malaysia, and the keen interest of Baghdad in his case make Iraq the most likely candidate.

More from The Connection:

"In the days following the [9-11-01] attacks, world leaders expressed sympathy and solidarity with Americans. The list of well-wishers included longtime enemies such as Cuba's Fidel Castro, Libya's Moammar Khadafi, and the ruling clerics in Iran.

There was only one exception: Saddam Hussein.

As distraught relatives searched for missing loved ones near Ground Zero, the Iraqi regime openly celebrated. To the strains of triumphant, nationalistic music, Iraq's state-run television network replayed the spectacular images of the two airplanes crashing into the World Trade Center.
...
There are literally hundreds of intelligence reports detailing links between Iraq and al Qaeda's worldwide operations. There are numerous others that present evidence - again much of it circumstantial and speculative - about potential Iraqi involvement in September 11."
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Some of the key elements addressed in the book are the extent that Saddam had nefarious contacts with terrorist organizations. Saddam openly supported Palestinian terrorist groups and it's clear he had high level contacts with al Qaeda..

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Again from The Connection:

"But by the time the Iraq War began, the evidence of Iraqi links to al Qaeda went well beyond a few dots. It was a veritable constellation.

An important participant in the first al Qaeda attack on American soil, the 1993 bombing of the World Trade Center, had been given safe haven in Iraq. Both bin Laden and Saddam had repeatedly voiced their desire to kill Americans. CIA Director George Tenet reported at least eight meetings between high-level Iraqi intelligence officials and senior al Qaeda terrorists. At least twice, the deputy director of Iraqi intelligence met bin Laden personally. In its 1998 indictment of bin Laden, the Clinton administration cited an "understanding" between Iraq and al Qaeda whereby bin Laden agreed not to agitate against the Iraqi regime in exchange for help on "weapons development." Fresh intelligence indicated that Iraq had provided training to al Qaeda terrorist on poisons and gases. Senior al Qaeda associates were operating openly in Baghdad before the war."


Edited by b95000

Angela wrote: This is not the full and accurate explanation of the controversy at hand.

If the controversy 'at hand' included all these Democrats who sat on the Intelligence Committies and had oversight into all of these matters all throughout the Clinton Admin, then why doesn't the Nation's critique include them in their diatribe?  I think the politicizing of this discussion on either side of this aisle is disgusting and distasteful to all those who've lost their lives in this struggle -including those who dove out of the towers on 9/11. 

Iraq did not come out of a vacuum - it has been a burning agenda item for at least 2 dozen years (or more) with the US.

To be short sighted in analysis and critique is not helpful - in my humble opinion.