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Where is the Evidence?

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solitair View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote solitair Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 March 2014 at 11:31pm
Originally posted by Caringheart Caringheart wrote:



a)The qur'an is not complete. 
b)If you read the qur'an, you see clearly that it is not the same story. 
c)There are similarities, but there are glaring differences. 
d)The qur'an contains some of the Truth, but not all.



a) The qur'an is complete - by complete we can not talk pages of text, but the actual content explained. The messages, that the God from the Qur'an wants us to receive - is all in there without any holes in the logic like you find in the bible. The messages God from the Bible wants to give us, seem to have many peaces missing, and some are simply contradicting. If you don't agree with this, you have not read eather books properly.

b) I read the que'an - and i see clearly the opposite of what you are telling me, that it is the same story - and i see clearly that the differences are all the parts of the bible that does not appear logical. What does that mean ? That Muslims corrupted the bible ? Or does it mean that they did not corrupt Qur'an.

c) Yes - there are glaring differences, and those are the parts of the Bible that does not make much sense. Those are the parts of the bible that for example blame the woman for the fall of man, the stuff that is man made to control people trough religion. Someone inserted this blame on woman, to have a more obedient wife. It sure was not God that put that stuff in the bible, because God is extremely clear on his views of the woman.

d) I have no idea what the truth is - i am not chirstian and i am not a muslim. I am simply having an objective look at the two books, and there  is no way that all of the bible is all written by the same person / God.

Some stuff in between - really all over the place - seem to be written by someone completely different from the main author.  The quality of the messages are just all of a sudden completely contradicting... and that is what you can not find in the Qur'an. 

Now I think there are two main reasons for this:

1) The Qur'an is written in Arabic, a language that stil is in use, no need for all the translations the bible has gone trough.
2) The Qur'an had the material the religious leaders wanted from the beginning. In other words no need for a change or rewrite.







Edited by solitair - 05 March 2014 at 11:34pm
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islamispeace View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote islamispeace Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 March 2014 at 2:37pm
Originally posted by solitair solitair wrote:

Originally posted by Caringheart Caringheart wrote:



a)The qur'an is not complete. 
b)If you read the qur'an, you see clearly that it is not the same story. 
c)There are similarities, but there are glaring differences. 
d)The qur'an contains some of the Truth, but not all.



a) The qur'an is complete - by complete we can not talk pages of text, but the actual content explained. The messages, that the God from the Qur'an wants us to receive - is all in there without any holes in the logic like you find in the bible. The messages God from the Bible wants to give us, seem to have many peaces missing, and some are simply contradicting. If you don't agree with this, you have not read eather books properly.

b) I read the que'an - and i see clearly the opposite of what you are telling me, that it is the same story - and i see clearly that the differences are all the parts of the bible that does not appear logical. What does that mean ? That Muslims corrupted the bible ? Or does it mean that they did not corrupt Qur'an.

c) Yes - there are glaring differences, and those are the parts of the Bible that does not make much sense. Those are the parts of the bible that for example blame the woman for the fall of man, the stuff that is man made to control people trough religion. Someone inserted this blame on woman, to have a more obedient wife. It sure was not God that put that stuff in the bible, because God is extremely clear on his views of the woman.

d) I have no idea what the truth is - i am not chirstian and i am not a muslim. I am simply having an objective look at the two books, and there  is no way that all of the bible is all written by the same person / God.

Some stuff in between - really all over the place - seem to be written by someone completely different from the main author.  The quality of the messages are just all of a sudden completely contradicting... and that is what you can not find in the Qur'an. 

Now I think there are two main reasons for this:

1) The Qur'an is written in Arabic, a language that stil is in use, no need for all the translations the bible has gone trough.
2) The Qur'an had the material the religious leaders wanted from the beginning. In other words no need for a change or rewrite.



Well-said.  Clap
Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)

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Caringheart View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Caringheart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 March 2014 at 4:51pm
Originally posted by solitair solitair wrote:

Originally posted by Caringheart Caringheart wrote:


a)The qur'an is not complete. 
b)If you read the qur'an, you see clearly that it is not the same story. 
c)There are similarities, but there are glaring differences. 
d)The qur'an contains some of the Truth, but not all.

b) I read the que'an - and i see clearly the opposite of what you are telling me, that it is the same story - and i see clearly that the differences are all the parts of the bible that does not appear logical. What does that mean ? That Muslims corrupted the bible ? Or does it mean that they did not corrupt Qur'an.

d) I have no idea what the truth is - i am not chirstian and i am not a muslim. I am simply having an objective look at the two books, and there  is no way that all of the bible is all written by the same person / God.

Some stuff in between - really all over the place - seem to be written by someone completely different from the main author.  The quality of the messages are just all of a sudden completely contradicting... and that is what you can not find in the Qur'an. 

Greetings solitair,

I try not to belabor every point but only the ones that most stand out to me.  In this instance...

Indeed the Judeo-Christian scriptures have many authors.  The Qur'an would have one voice because it was revealed by only one person.

You say, you do not find 'the quality of the messages in the Qur'an contradicting', and I find them entirely contradicting... and I find this all the more concerning because of the fact that they do come from the mouth of one person, who claims to speak with the voice of the Creator.

I find the message of Yshwe(known as Jesus) to be cohesive and in keeping with earlier revelations.

Salaam and blessings,
Caringheart



Edited by Caringheart - 07 March 2014 at 4:52pm
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"I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NABA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 March 2014 at 2:02am
[email protected] caringheart so u mean to say that u will follow the way of life written by authors who r humans who r to err.U said rightly Quran has one voice, the voice of Allah bcoz it contains solution to every problem of mankind.so y not follow revelation send down by the one who created us.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote solitair Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 March 2014 at 3:03am
Originally posted by Caringheart Caringheart wrote:


You say, you do not find 'the quality of the messages in the Qur'an contradicting', and I find them entirely contradicting...


It seems to be common for people with your or similar background to say  view the Qur'an as "entirely contradicting". If you don't agree with the Qur'an, or if you don't agree with Islam - that is one thing, but to say that the Qur'an is "entirely contradicting" is just an untrue statement you allow yourself to utter because you are not educated enough to discover how wrong it is.

So this is the chalenge:

We have to keep this simple enough to follow, so lets just start at the beginning of the bible, a story that everybody know very well.

Genesis, the creation of the world, man etc. The same story is in the Qur'an. Show me how that story contains contradictions in the Qur'an.

I am so tired of people just making a claim and not having a clue... so prove your statement of for ever hold your tong about this topic.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Caringheart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 March 2014 at 2:24pm
Originally posted by NABA NABA wrote:

[email protected] caringheart so u mean to say that u will follow the way of life written by authors who r humans who r to err.U said rightly Quran has one voice, the voice of Allah bcoz it contains solution to every problem of mankind.so y not follow revelation send down by the one who created us.

Greetings NABA,

I follow the voice of Yshwe, which is the voice recorded in the gospels by those many authors... His Apostles and followers.  The recordings of the men that walked and talked with Yshwe, and did as He commanded them to do in spreading the good news... the news of Christ. 

"Every matter must be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses."(Deuteronomy)
This was the law given by Moses and repeated by Yshwe;
       in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. (book of Matthew)

I trust in the many.

Salaam and blessings to you,
Caringheart
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever
"I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote iec786 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 March 2014 at 11:47pm
Quran the Ultimate Miracle 1 of 7

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8gXcCNJN0U
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Caringheart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 March 2014 at 12:36pm
Originally posted by solitair solitair wrote:

Originally posted by Caringheart Caringheart wrote:


You say, you do not find 'the quality of the messages in the Qur'an contradicting', and I find them entirely contradicting...


It seems to be common for people with your or similar background to say  view the Qur'an as "entirely contradicting". If you don't agree with the Qur'an, or if you don't agree with Islam - that is one thing, but to say that the Qur'an is "entirely contradicting" is just an untrue statement you allow yourself to utter because you are not educated enough to discover how wrong it is.


I am so tired of people just making a claim and not having a clue... so prove your statement of for ever hold your tong about this topic.

Greetings solitair,

Here are just a few examples:

 2:253  Of those messengers, some of whom We have caused to excel others, and of whom there are some unto whom Allah spake, while some of them He exalted (above others) in degree.

2:285  We make no distinction between any of His messengers.


... and everyone knows that all muslims hold Muhammad as higher than all the rest.
_________

39:4  If Allah had willed to choose a son, He could have chosen what He would of that which He hath created.

6:100  Yet they ... impute falsely, without knowledge, sons and daughters unto Him. ... The Originator of the heavens and the earth! How can He have a child?


So, which is it... can allah do whatever he wants or not?
_________

4:3    Marry of the women, who seem good to you, two or three or four; and if ye fear that ye cannot do justice (to so many) then one (only) or (the captives) that your right hands possess.

4:129    Ye will not be able to deal equally between (your) wives, however much ye wish (to do so).


Which is it... many wives or no?  According to the Qur'an it is not possible to treat many wives equally, and according to the Qur'an you should not take more than one if you can not treat all equally... thus, I interpret... thou shalt have only one wife... Yet Muhammad says, 'marry as many as seems good to you'. Ouch

Also, I am sure that, if you know your Qur'an, you will know for yourself that in several places the Qur'an says, 'they must be made to accept the religion of islam', and in another place it says, 'there is no compulsion in religion'.   I am sorry that I don't have the time right now to provide all the exact verses, but you must know them.

asalaam,
Caringheart
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever
"I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis
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