Hmmmmm!

Salaam Alaykum

I am sorry that I may have been misunderstood, but my question was specific as to whom the Prophet appointed as the head of the expedition to Tabuk from among the other Muslims (except Ali of course, since he had stayed in Madeenah). I am not asking which was more important or less important at this point. So Insha Allah if the members Ali Zaki or Abu Hadi could shed some light on the answer to this specific question, it would be good...

Salaam

Well, saying that the Prophet (SAW) was with them and therefore they did not need a leader is contradictory of course, since the Prophet always appointed someone as leader of the expedition even when he was present. The issue of "standard bearer" was not limited only to the time when the battle was to begin, but was from the time the expedition started.

One more thing is that in any expedition, there would obviously be many sub-expeditions that the Prophet would command for people to do, so perhaps we can also look into that ??? Not only for Tabuk but for other expeditions as well, though in this case we are talking about Tabuk only.

In any case, perhaps Ali Zaki can give us the references he has read, and perhaps together we can come to a conclusion in this regard, if he believes I have missed some point, etc.

Salam ala kum to Jello and others,

"saying that the Prophet (SAW) was with them and therefore they did not need a leader is contradictory of course, since the Prophet always appointed someone as leader of the expedition even when he was present"

I think we are getting a little too deep into symantics here. When I say that the prophet was their leader, I mean in the absolute sense of the "Imamate". In any organization that has ever existed, authority is delegated downward by neccesity. If you have a particular point you would like to make regarding WHO was delegated for WHAT leadership position during this expedition then please enlighten us.

REGARDING OTHER COMPANIONS AND DELEGATION VS. " SHURA".

I think I know where you're going with your questions, but I'll wait to you take us there to make any detailed comments. In general, however, I would like to say that our position is not that everything was decided by the Prophet alone, without consulation with others. Our position is also not that there were not other pious, knowledgabe and corageous Muslims among the companions that were given limited authority during the limetime of the Prophet(a.s.). On the other hand, the Holy Quran tells us that we must make the Prophet the judge in our affairs,

" "By your Lord, they can have no faith until they make you (Prophet Muhammad) a judge in all disputes between them and find in themselves no resistance against your decision and accept it with full submission." 4:65

In conclusion, my point is not to say that the Holy Messenger (a.s.) was a dictator (God forbid), or that he only delegated authority to Imam Ali (a.s.). The point is that if the Quran is our guide, and the Holy Messenger is our judge in all disputes, then we must follow his judgements and disregard our own personal opinions and wishes.

Salam

Salam Jello,

I'm sorry to hear you are not feeling well. May Allah preserve and heal you.

I'm sorry, but I'm not quite sure where we are going with this Tabuk expidition. I will list some Shia sources of information, as requested.

http://al-islam.org/lifeprophet/21.htm

http://al-islam.org/restatement/34.htm

(the above link also quotes British and European Historians, Like Sir John Glubb and others. Of course, these secular historians are not considered "Saheeh", however, we accept their version of historical events in this matter because they agree with other sources which we know to be Saheeh)

Here are some more Islamic Web Sources

http://www.witness-pioneer.org/vil/Articles/companion/27_ali _bin_talib.htm

http://www.ptv.com.pk/webptv/PBUH-adetail21.asp

Salam