Sarah,Sarai Abrahams wife and his sister???

Al Saadiqeen21 wrote: iec786 wrote: Salaams, This is puzzling In the Bible we are told that Sarah is Abrahams wife.Then Now Abraham said of Sarah his wife, �She is my sister.� One father different mothers.That is not half sister it is full sister.Isaac would be considered a B*ASTARD child. A B*STARD shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the LORD. What then of all his beloved DESCENDANTS THE jew's could we call them also B*ASTARDS according to the Bible ????? Please note these are not my words i am merely quoting the HOLY BIBLE.iF YOU FEEL OFFENDED THEN PLEASE CONSULT YOUR BIBLE SCHOLARS AND CHANGE IT IF IT SUITS YOU. Thank you Ismail.   According to the Scriptures meaning Chapter's and Verses where can the above be found ?????

Greetings Al Saadiqeen21,

See posts 3 and 4...
June 6 and 7.
I asked the same question and Ismail responded. 

Salaam,
Caringheart

Caringheart wrote: iec786 wrote: Ok what do you think Abraham meant when he said, 12 Besides, she really is my sister, the daughter of my father though not of my mother; and she became my wife. Was he considering the DNA factor or did he really think it was his sister??? Do you know of anyone married to his half sister or brother. My own opinion even if you share half of the DNA you could not marry one another it would be incest. The sex factor in the Quran is to teach men what you are allowed to do and what is forbidden to you. The Bible gives you account like the story of Jacob and his daughter in law.Lot and his daughters i mean what is the moral of the story??? say well Ismail Hi Ismail,I had to go back to see what originated our discussion.� lolSo essentially you are saying that you do not believe what is written about Abram and Sarai in the Judeo-Christian scriptures.Would that be correct?and I think I simply said that it was likely a common thing in those ancient times... and I mainly replied because being half-sister and half-brother married does not make Isaac a b__d.and the qur'an says nothing against sister/brother marriage either... is that correct?I mean I agree with you, we have progressed in knowledge and know that this is not advisable practice and is no longer practiced by most... at least I hope it isn't.� Perhaps in the days when the gene pool was still pure it was not such an issue but as time has gone on we have seen it can be a very big issue.� We have been able to avoid many abnormalities, deformities, and mental retardations with our increased knowledge... things that did perhaps exist in great abundance in ancient days... perhaps this is why people blamed demons and such, because they didn't know any better.� Perhaps this is why they killed their own children... and I am sure many of them simply died as well.� I guess perhaps we eventually began to learn from these things... to put 2 and 2 together.Salaam,Caringheartnote:� I think the moral of the story with Abram and Sarai was about deception... when Abram deceived a king by not revealing the full truth about Sarai and saying that 'she is my sister' and not telling him that she was also his wife.Not all the stories in the scriptures have a moral... many are just simple factual histories which illustrate the human frailties and sinful nature.I forget which ones, and how many, and am too tired to look it up... but there is a complete section of the Judeo scriptures which are the historical texts... simply recordings for the purpose of preserving history.Peace and blessings to you.

Hi Caringheart,

I think we should agree that this had nothing to do with God writing or the Holy Spirit but just someone anonymous
putting pen to paper.

I say that because the same story popped up with Isaac and one incident is heavy enough but then you had Isaac story exactly the same,and we can deduce that this was an interpolation on the writers behalf.The writer probably wrote the first piece and found it fascinating and decided to repeat the same storey just changing the characters.

peace to you
Ismail.

ps have a good rest.


      

Caringheart wrote: iec786 wrote: Hi Caringheart, One father two mothers.are not half but full brothers and sisters. ...peace to you Ismail Greetings Ismail,I am sure that you have knowledge of DNA and that you must understand that one father, two mothers, does not produce 'full brothers and sisters', but only half, since they share only half of their DNA... that which came from their father... but the DNA from their mothers causes them to be half, not fully related.As far as what you posted about sex in the Bible... these are the stories of things which occurred.� Your point was that they had no place in the scriptures... but the scriptures record the history of the behavior of the people... good and bad.Your feeling was that the subject of sex had no place in scripture, and I was pointing out that the qur'an, and hadith, have plenty of place for the subject of sex.Salaam,CLynn

Hi CLynn,nice name somewhat different.    

Ok what do you think Abraham meant when he said,

12 Besides, she really is my sister, the daughter of my father though not of my mother; and she became my wife.

Was he considering the DNA factor or did he really think it was his sister???

Do you know of anyone married to his half sister or brother.

My own opinion even if you share half of the DNA you could not marry
one another it would be incest.

The sex factor in the Quran is to teach men what you are allowed to do and what is forbidden to you.

The Bible gives you account like the story of Jacob and his daughter in law.Lot and his daughters i mean what is the moral of the story???

say well
Ismail

[/QUOTE]Greetings Ismail,Abram and Sarai, according to what is written, were only half-brother, half-sister.� "she is the daughter of my father, but not the daughter of my mother"I do not imagine in those times this would have been considered incestuous.� We now know how backwards it is, but in those times I can imagine it was acceptable, as were so many other things we now know better about.Regarding your other comments;What about... Doesn't the qur'an teach which hand you must use for going to the bathroom, and which hand must be used for eating?� with no regard for the natural inclination of a person to left, or right-handedness?� Yet you think it would be ridiculous for the qur'an to address the issues we discuss here?� Islam is far more explicit than the Bible, on details of private living, to the point of intrusive.� I don't know how much of it comes from the qur'an and how much comes from hadith, but who are you kidding?� The qur'an has plenty to say on the subject of sex... but it nowhere tells the history of the most important man in the history of the religion?� The Creator thought it more important to teach about hand washing, how to go to the bathroom, and when and how to have sex?The story you relate regarding Isaac is an illustration of how sons will repeat the transgressions of the previous generations.I don't understand the comment about the 'butcher of Sabra and Shatila'?Salaam and blessings to you,Caringheart[/QUOTE]


Hi Caringheart,

One father two mothers.are not half but full brothers and sisters.

I do not imagine in those times this would have been considered incestuous.

Yes it was incestrous imagion or not.

Regarding your other comments; What about... Doesn't the qur'an teach which hand you must use for going to the bathroom, and which hand must be used for eating? with no regard for the natural inclination of a person to left, or right-handedness?

weather you left handed or right handed makes no difference you will still use your left hand to wash your backside and you left out with water,not just toilet paper you see just toilet paper leaves a smell in Islam we leave nothing to chance.

Islam is far more explicit than the Bible, on details of private living, to the point of intrusive. I don't know how much of it comes from the qur'an and how much comes from hadith, but who are you kidding? The qur'an has plenty to say on the subject of sex...

You are now trying to judge the Quran by your Bible standards.let us take a few points in discussing this topic of sex in the Bible.
The different types of sex in the Bible.
Samson has SEX with a whore in Gaza. JUDGES 16:1

Ruth COHABITS with Boaz in the barn. RUTH 3:4-15

David SLEEPS with a young virgin. 1 KINGS 11:1,3

INCEST :now for the different types of incest as if this is a book on incest.

"Sexual intercourse between two persons who are
too closely related." (New Collins Dictionary). For example,
between father and daughter, son and mother, father-in-law and
daughter-in-law, brother and sister, etc.


INCEST IN GOD'S BOOK (?) BETWEEN A FATHER AND HIS
DAUGHTERS:
(a) "That night they (both the daughters of Lot) gave him (their
father Lot) wine to drink, and the older daughter had
INTERCOURSE with him ...
"The next day the older daughter said to her sister, l slept with
him last night: now let's get him drunk again tonight, and you
sleep with him. Then each of us will have a child by our father.
"So that night they got him drunk, and the younger daughter
had INTERCOURSE with him ...
"In this way both of Lot's daughters became PREGNANT by
their father." GENESIS 19:33-35 (From the "Good News Bible in Today's
English").
In the older Versions, like the King James and the Roman Catholic
Versions, "SEXUAL INTERCOURSE" is vaguely described as
"COLLECTING THE SEED OF OUR FATHER."
INCEST BETWEEN MOTHER AND SON:
(b) "While Jacob (Israel) was living in the land, Reuben (his
firstborn, his eldest son) had SEXUAL


INTERCOURSE with Bilhah, his father's concubine. "
GENESIS 35:22.
The older Versions of the Bible, use the word, "lay" for SEXUAL
INTERCOURSE.
INCEST BETWEEN FATHER-IN-LAW AND DAUGHTER-IN-LAW:
(c) "When Judah saw her (Tamar, his daughter-in-law), he thought
she was a prostitute, because she had covered her face.
"He went over to her at the side of the road and said, "ALL
RIGHT, HOW MUCH DO YOU CHARGE?" (He did not
know that she was his daughter-in-law)
"She said what will you give me?" (To have sex with me).
"He answered, I WILL SEND YOU A YOUNG GOAT
FROM MY FLOCK.
"She said, "All right, if you will give me something to keep as a
pledge until you send the goat.
". . . He gave them (the pledges) to her. Then had
INTERCOURSE, and she became pregnant." GENESIS 38:15-I8
(Quoted from the "Good News Bible").


Out of this incestuous relationship between a father-in-law and his
daughter-in-law, twins were born, who were destined to become the
great-grand-fathers of Jesus Christ. See MATTHEW 1:3
"And Judas begat Phares and Zarah of Thamar . . ."
INCEST AND RAPE BETWEEN BROTHER AND SISTER:
(d) ". . . he took hold of her (Thamar, his sister, not to be confused
with Thamar in "c" above), and said unto her, Come lie with me
(have sex with me), my sister. 2 Samuel 13:11
"And she answered him, Nay, my brother (Amnon, one of the
sons of David, the man after God's own heart), do not force me .
. ." 2 Samuel 13:12
"But he would not listen to her; and since he was stronger
than she was, he overpowered her and RAPED her (his
sister)." 2 Samuel 13:14
WHOLESALE RAPE AND INCEST BETWEEN SON AND HIS
MOTHERS!
(e) "So they set up a tent for Absalom (another son of King David)
on the palace roof, and in the sight of everyone, Absalom went
in and had INTERCOURSE with his father's concubines ." 2
SAMUEL 16:22
(f) For other various types of incest see LEVITICUS 18:8-18, 20:11-
14 and 17-21.


These are just a few topics of sex in the Bible.The Quran does not have any of this trash in it.

I don't understand the comment about the 'butcher of Sabra and Shatila'?

I just posted that Sharon the killer was dead.

peace to you
Ismail