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JESUS - what really happened.
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Abu Ahmad View Drop Down
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    Posted: 17 November 2013 at 3:19am

Here is truth from the Qur'an about Eisa (peace be upon him) which is supported by 1st century history:

HISTORICAL FACT: It is agreed among historians that the 1st century records a long guerrilla war between Messianic Jews/Zealots against Roman occupation. The Paulinian christians however have denied these Messianic Jews/Zealots have nothing to do with their Jesus the Peacenik God. They declare that the leaders of the Messianic Jews/Zealots guerrilla movements  were "false messiahs".  Even though Jesus disciples carried swords (John 18:10) and have names like Simon the ZEALOT (terrorist) and Judas ESCARIOT (meaning man of the dagger / assassin).

The Jews deny the Messianic Jews/Zealots because for them Jesus was a false messiah because he didn't fullfill prophesy.  Being that  the promised messiah will be a Ruler/Imam/Warrior King who will conquer his enemies and rule the world with an iron fist.   Also Psalms declares the Messiah cannot be harmed.  Even the devil testifies to this & Jesus confirms (NT - 40 days in the wilderness).

QUR�AN: Allah tells us in the Qur�an that Jesus was not crucified nor harmed but rescued by angels (fulfilling Psalms prophesies). AND Jesus called the people to JIHAD (armed rebellion against Rome) � Qur�an 9:111

Indeed, Allah has purchased from the believers their lives and their properties [in exchange] for that they will have Paradise. They fight in the cause of Allah , so they kill and are killed.  A true promise binding upon Him in the Torah and the Gospel and the Qur'an. And who is truer to his covenant than Allah ? So rejoice in your transaction which you have contracted. And it is that which is the great attainment.  Qur'an 9:111

..........................
zeal�ot  (zlt)

n.
1.
a. One who is zealous, especially excessively so.
b. A fanatically committed person.
2. Zealot A member of a Jewish movement of the first century a.d. that fought against Roman rule in Palestine as incompatible with strict monotheism.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/zealot

Sicarii.

Sicarii comes from the Latin word for dagger sica, and means assasins or murderers. The Sicarii, or "dagger men" carried out murders and assassinations with short daggers.

The Sicarii were led by descendents of Judas of Galilee, who helped foster revolt against direct Roman rule in 6 CE, when they attempted to carry out a census of the Jews under the rule of Roman governor Quirinius in Syria, so that they could tax them. Judas famously proclaimed that the Jews should be ruled by God alone.

http://terrorism.about.com/od/groupsleader1/p/Sicarii.htm


NOTE:  Judas of Galilee??????????????? 




Edited by Sandshoes - 17 November 2013 at 9:27pm
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Spiritlead View Drop Down
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Hi Sandshoes.

What are you trying to say exactly? � that Jesus was some kind of Jihadi ?

a false Mesiah ?or a failed Mesiah? 

All Christians know that some of Jesus friends such as Judas and Simon the Zealot were revolutionaries? How does this contradict the histories of Jesus passed down from  James , Peter, John, Mathew, Mark or Luke - or Paul . It doesn�t.

 

Jesus fulfilled all the Old Testament prophesies. Here is a list for you of prophesies he fulfilled-

Born of a virgin (Isaiah 7:14; Matthew 1:21-23)

A descendant of Abraham (Genesis 12:1-3; 22:18; Matthew 1:1; Galatians 3:16)

Of the tribe of Judah (Genesis 49:10; Luke 3:23, 33; Hebrews 7:14)

Of the house of David (2 Samuel 7:12-16; Matthew 1:1)

Born in Bethlehem (Micah 5:2, Matthew 2:1; Luke 2:4-7)

Taken to Egypt (Hosea 11:1; Matthew 2:14-15)

Herod�s killing of the infants (Jeremiah 31:15; Matthew 2:16-18)

Anointed by the Holy Spirit (Isaiah 11:2; Matthew 3:16-17)

Heralded by the messenger of the Lord (John the Baptist) (Isaiah 40:3-5; Malachi 3:1; Matthew 3:1-3)

Would perform miracles (Isaiah 35:5-6; Matthew 9:35)

Would preach good news (Isaiah 61:1; Luke 4:14-21)

Would minister in Galilee (Isaiah 9:1; Matthew 4:12-16) Would cleanse the Temple (Malachi 3:1; Matthew 21:12-13)

Would first present Himself as King 173,880 days from the decree to rebuild Jerusalem (Daniel 9:25; Matthew 21:4-11)

Would enter Jerusalem as a king on a donkey (Zechariah 9:9; Matthew 21:4-9)

Would be rejected by Jews (Psalm 118:22; I Peter 2:7)

Die a humiliating death (Psalm 22; Isaiah 53) involving:

rejection (Isaiah 53:3; John 1:10-11; 7:5,48)

betrayal by a friend (Psalm 41:9; Luke 22:3-4; John 13:18)

sold for 30 pieces of silver (Zechariah 11:12; Matthew 26:14-15)

silence before His accusers (Isaiah 53:7; Matthew 27:12-14)

being mocked (Psalm 22: 7-8; Matthew 27:31)

beaten (Isaiah 52:14; Matthew 27:26)

spit upon (Isaiah 50:6; Matthew 27:30)

piercing His hands and feet (Psalm 22:16; Matthew 27:31)

being crucified with thieves (Isaiah 53:12; Matthew 27:38)

praying for His persecutors (Isaiah 53:12; Luke 23:34)

piercing His side (Zechariah 12:10; John 19:34)

given gall and vinegar to drink (Psalm 69:21, Matthew 27:34, Luke 23:36)

no broken bones (Psalm 34:20; John 19:32-36)

buried in a rich man�s tomb (Isaiah 53:9; Matthew 27:57-60)

casting lots for His garments (Psalm 22:18; John 19:23-24)

Would rise from the dead!! (Psalm 16:10; Mark 16:6; Acts 2:31)

Ascend into Heaven (Psalm 68:18; Acts 1:9)

Would sit down at the right hand of God (Psalm 110:1; Hebrews 1:3)

 

You say Allah tells us in the Qur�an that Jesus was not crucified nor harmed but rescued by angels (fulfilling Psalms prophesies). Why should we believe the Quran which was written 600 years later than the eye witnesses of the New Testament (Injil).

 Where are the prophesies that relate to Jesus not being crucified nor harmed. Please quote them.

 

You say Jesus called the people to JIHAD (armed rebellion against Rome). Where does it say that in the New Testament(Injil)? Again why should I believe  Qur�an 9:111 which was written 600 years later than the eye witnesses of the New Testament (Injil).



Edited by Spiritlead - 12 December 2013 at 8:45pm
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honeto View Drop Down
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Points: 2487 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote honeto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 December 2013 at 3:07pm
Spiritlead,
whatever you are discussing with Sandshoes is sperate from what I have to say:
1-True that the Quran was revealed 600 hundred years after Jesus (pbuh). It is also the truth that we have the Quran in it's original language, while not the Gospel. It is also true that we have more than a thousand year old copies of the Quran with us today that are identical to the one we have today, not so in the case of Gospel or Gospels.
2-In light of the above facts, if I were you of course I will go with the more reliable source.
3-As a Muslim I need not anyone else to testify that Jesus was indeed the Messiah. The Quran's testimony is enough for a believer like myself.
4-You take prophet David's Psalms, in which he is talking about himself and his faith as prophecy for Jesus, where it suits you and overlook where it does not. Pick and choose as you please is not the way God teaches us:
For example you used Psalms 16:10 "would rise from the dead" as a prophecy for Jesus rising from the dead. See when you repeat what you hear from someone else and make it as your belief without verifying things you get in trouble, beside being dishonest to yourself.
First of all, it was something David is describing about himself. Second, Psalms were taken from the OT which is a Jewish book. In order to see what it really said, before being modified, I went to the Jewish source, Chabad.org. And here is what I read: Psalms 16:1"
1. A michtam of David; O God, guard me for I have taken refuge in You."
Now you as a Christian believe Jesus to be God/part of/son of God. This truly goes against that.
Here is the verse 2 " You should say to the Lord, "You are my Master; my good is not incumbent upon You." completely against your belief that Jesus is God. How this can be a prophecy about Jesus, are you contradicting yourself or your belief?
Let us move on and this one shows how transformation takes place, how meanings and words are changed to fit someone's agenda. You wrote Psalms 16:10's meanings as:"Would rise from the dead!!"
while here is the present day original Jewish Psalms says:10. "For You shall not forsake my soul to the grave; You shall not allow Your pious one to see the pit. " and :11 "You shall let me know the way of life, the fullness of joys in Your presence. There is pleasantness in Your right hand forever." Can you say "alterations".
Here is what you wrote for Psalms 110:1 "Would sit down at the right hand of God". I cannot believe how the original differ, and it is a living prove of alteration made by those who only mislead themselves. Here it is:
Psalms 110:1 " Of David a psalm. The word of the Lord to my master; "Wait for My right hand, until I make your enemies a footstool at your feet."
Enough to prove my point.
Hasan


Edited by honeto - 16 December 2013 at 3:39pm
The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62
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Abu Ahmad View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Spiritlead Spiritlead wrote:

Hi Sandshoes.

What are you trying to say exactly? � that Jesus was some kind of Jihadi ?

a false Mesiah ?or a failed Mesiah?


History testifies to prolonged guerrilla war by religious extremists against Roman occupation.  The jewish "MESSIAH" is a Jihadi warrior, Religious imam & Leader of the people.  Not a peace-nik hippie.

The real Jesus was raised alive to return to Earth soon to finish his mission.  To establish the Kingdom of God over the earth - The Worldwide Caliphate.


Originally posted by Spiritlead Spiritlead wrote:

You say Allah tells us in the Qur�an that Jesus was not crucified nor harmed but rescued by angels (fulfilling Psalms prophesies).

 Where are the prophesies that relate to Jesus not being crucified nor harmed. Please quote them.



Luke 4:9-11 The devil led him to Jerusalem and had him stand on the highest point of the temple. �If you are the Son of God,� he said, �throw yourself down from here. For it is written:

��He will command his angels concerning you
to guard you carefully;
they will lift you up in their hands,
so that you will not strike your foot against a stone."

The devil is referencing Psalm 91:11-12.  This is ALLAH's promise to His Messiah that he cannot be harmed by his enemies.  AND this is why the Jews today mock the christians.

 

Originally posted by Spiritlead Spiritlead wrote:

You say Jesus called the people to JIHAD (armed rebellion against Rome). Where does it say that in the New Testament(Injil)?


Rebellion against Rome - Jesus rode into Jerusalem & the people greeted Jesus with strewn palms and cries of "Hosanna!" the ancient cry of Jewish independence.

Luke 23:1-2 tells us firstly, that Jesus agitated sedition.   Second, they said that he encouraged people to not pay taxes to Caesar.  And third, he assumed the title king. In so many words they accused him of rebellion and insurrection.


Originally posted by Spiritlead Spiritlead wrote:

Again why should I believe  Qur�an 9:111 which was written 600 years later than the eye witnesses of the New Testament (Injil).



You should believe the Qur'an to save your soul from eternal damnation.  ALLAH tells us another took Jesus place on the cross.  So your witnesses witnessed other than Jesus being crucified.  Verse 9:111 marries perfectly with historical accounts.  Whereas the NT is historical out of place. e.g. romans daily crucified women & children along the roads in Judea to keep the people subdued.  Yet your Jesus doesn't even notice this?  Can anyone not react to this?  Your bible is the work of Paul & his gospel & written down by Paul's apprentices Mark & Luke & 2000 years of tweaking.

**And both the O.T. and N.T. testify that no one can kill the Messiah - agreed?


Edited by Sandshoes - 18 December 2013 at 7:02am
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I find this interesting.

Edited by Just_Me - 27 February 2014 at 12:53pm
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Matthew 22:18:21

But Jesus, aware of their malice, said, �Why put me to the test, you hypocrites? Show me the coin for the tax.� And they brought him a denarius. And Jesus said to them, �Whose likeness and inscription is this?�. They said, �Caesar's.� Then he said to them, �Therefore render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's.

Luke 23:1-2

Then the whole company of them arose and brought him before Pilate. And they began to accuse him, saying, �We found this man misleading our nation and forbidding us to give tribute to Caesar, and saying that he himself is Christ, a king.� And Pilate asked him, �Are you the King of the Jews?� And he answered him, �You have said so.� Then Pilate said to the chief priests and the crowds, �I find no guilt in this man.�

Edited by Just_Me - 27 February 2014 at 12:52pm
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I forgot to mention in an earlier post that Jesus was charged with Sedition /rebellion hence the legal punishment of crucifixion.

If it had been blasphemy (claiming divinity) he would have been legally stoned to death as per the punishment of "Stephen" in Acts.

To 'Just Me'. The coin story shows Jesus was referring to a bit of copper metal with Caesar's face engraved. The Romans were demanding 50% or more tribute from the dirt poor peasants. They didn't have any copper coins with Caesar's head on 'em. Hence a witty remark to innocently advocate rebellion.

'Innocent jesus', come on. Pilate was sacked & recalled to Rome for being the most kill 'em all governor in the Empire. Remember these gospels are written after the fall of Jerusalem & Masada. And written in Greek in Greece & Rome for a Romanized audience. It's not wise to blame Rome if you want to convert them to christianity.

Edited by Abu Ahmad - 01 March 2014 at 8:43pm
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Originally posted by Abu Ahmad Abu Ahmad wrote:

Here is truth from the Qur'an about Eisa (peace be upon him) which is supported by 1st century history:

HISTORICAL FACT: It is agreed among historians that the 1st century records a long guerrilla war between Messianic Jews/Zealots against Roman occupation. The Paulinian christians however have denied these Messianic Jews/Zealots have nothing to do with their Jesus the Peacenik God. They declare that the leaders of the Messianic Jews/Zealots guerrilla movements  were "false messiahs".  Even though Jesus disciples carried swords (John 18:10) and have names like Simon the ZEALOT (terrorist) and Judas ESCARIOT (meaning man of the dagger / assassin).

The Jews deny the Messianic Jews/Zealots because for them Jesus was a false messiah because he didn't fullfill prophesy.  Being that  the promised messiah will be a Ruler/Imam/Warrior King who will conquer his enemies and rule the world with an iron fist.   Also Psalms declares the Messiah cannot be harmed.  Even the devil testifies to this & Jesus confirms (NT - 40 days in the wilderness).

QUR�AN: Allah tells us in the Qur�an that Jesus was not crucified nor harmed but rescued by angels (fulfilling Psalms prophesies). AND Jesus called the people to JIHAD (armed rebellion against Rome) � Qur�an 9:111

Indeed, Allah has purchased from the believers their lives and their properties [in exchange] for that they will have Paradise. They fight in the cause of Allah , so they kill and are killed.  A true promise binding upon Him in the Torah and the Gospel and the Qur'an. And who is truer to his covenant than Allah ? So rejoice in your transaction which you have contracted. And it is that which is the great attainment.  Qur'an 9:111

..........................
zeal�ot  (zlt)

n.
1.
a. One who is zealous, especially excessively so.
b. A fanatically committed person.
2. Zealot A member of a Jewish movement of the first century a.d. that fought against Roman rule in Palestine as incompatible with strict monotheism.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/zealot

Sicarii.

Sicarii comes from the Latin word for dagger sica, and means assasins or murderers. The Sicarii, or "dagger men" carried out murders and assassinations with short daggers.

The Sicarii were led by descendents of Judas of Galilee, who helped foster revolt against direct Roman rule in 6 CE, when they attempted to carry out a census of the Jews under the rule of Roman governor Quirinius in Syria, so that they could tax them. Judas famously proclaimed that the Jews should be ruled by God alone.

http://terrorism.about.com/od/groupsleader1/p/Sicarii.htm


NOTE:  Judas of Galilee??????????????? 


 
The Holy Qur'aan 9 ; 110 - 115 , Revealed In The Year 631 A.D. Al Tawbah ( The Acceptance Of Repentance ) , Where It States , And I Quote ; The Covenant Of The Source Is Found In His Scriptures - The Faithful Mortal Keeps The Laws Themselves .
 
Care to try again , Because you miss the whole point of  the Verse .
One doesn't go to school let His / her's mind to die , They go to school so that their mind will come alive .

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