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Ron Webb View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ron Webb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 July 2013 at 9:08pm
Originally posted by Caringheart Caringheart wrote:

Well currently about half the population in the United States disapproves of their current president.  What if that number increased to 90% and people turned out in the streets saying that they wanted him removed?
 
Then unless there are grounds for impeachment, according to the US Constitution, he would be gone.  In 2016.
 
You do uphold the Constitution, don't you?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Caringheart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 July 2013 at 9:25pm
Originally posted by Ron Webb Ron Webb wrote:

Originally posted by Caringheart Caringheart wrote:

Well currently about half the population in the United States disapproves of their current president.  What if that number increased to 90% and people turned out in the streets saying that they wanted him removed?
 
Then unless there are grounds for impeachment, according to the US Constitution, he would be gone.  In 2016.
 
You do uphold the Constitution, don't you?

I just wonder...
Do you think that's how it would go...
if the country was dissolving into chaos and violence?

I mean, up until now the United States has remained civilized...
the whole united we stand, divided we fall thing...
allowing due process to take its course...
but what if the country became terribly divided?

How do you think the civil war happened?

Do you really think the country could not become so divided as to erupt in violence as other countries have done?
There has been much violence in the past of the United States too...
there is nothing to say that could not come around again.
In fact I tend to see it as not far off if the people there are not careful, and become unable to act intelligently.


Edited by Caringheart - 26 July 2013 at 9:28pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ron Webb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 July 2013 at 3:48pm

Originally posted by Caringheart Caringheart wrote:

I just wonder...
Do you think that's how it would go...
if the country was dissolving into chaos and violence?

Well, I guess we've switched roles now, with you talking about the world as it is (or might be), while I talk about how it ought to be. Smile

Honestly, I don't see the US devolving into chaos anytime soon.  If it does, it will not be because a majority are opposed to the incumbent government.  If they had a clear majority, they could be confident of defeating the government in the next election and would be far better off just waiting a couple of years.

No, in a mature democracy such as the US, it would only be a radical minority that would attempt to seize power by force, because they know it would be their only option.

IMHO that in itself suggests to me that the Morsi opposition does not represent a majority of Egyptians.  If they did, then why did they elect Morsi in the first place?  And why not just vote him out at the next election?

Quote How do you think the civil war happened?

The American civil war is not analogous to the Egyptian situation.  The Confederate states were trying to secede from the Union, not to take control of it.  Apparently they had no democratic option to accomplish that.  (Which seems like a flaw in the Constitution, by the way, but that's another topic.)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Caringheart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 July 2013 at 4:19pm
Originally posted by Ron Webb Ron Webb wrote:

Well, I guess we've switched roles now, with you talking about the world as it is (or might be), while I talk about how it ought to be. Smile

LOL

Originally posted by Ron Webb Ron Webb wrote:

Honestly, I don't see the US devolving into chaos anytime soon.  If it does, it will not be because a majority are opposed to the incumbent government.  If they had a clear majority, they could be confident of defeating the government in the next election and would be far better off just waiting a couple of years.

No, in a mature democracy such as the US, it would only be a radical minority that would attempt to seize power by force, because they know it would be their only option.

IMHO that in itself suggests to me that the Morsi opposition does not represent a majority of Egyptians.  If they did, then why did they elect Morsi in the first place?  And why not just vote him out at the next election?



Ok, so here's how I see this... considering we are talking about the middle east and how things have gone in the past...
and not that it couldn't happen this way even in the United States, or any country for that matter...

Let's say that you elected what you thought was a democratic leader and then you find that leader turning into a dictator, a tyrant... not what you thought you were electing... think Hitler...
(for that matter I see Obama in the U.S. skating near to this himself with the way he has conducted things while he is in office)

Would you want to take the chance that in a few years there would even be another election?

People who want to gain total control, given a position of authority, can manage to gain that total control if people are not watching carefully, if they are not paying attention.

Can you see what I mean?


Edited by Caringheart - 27 July 2013 at 4:23pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TG12345 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 July 2013 at 6:29am
I am encouraging people to write to their governments to demand an end to all military aid to Egypt, while protesters are being massacred by the army.

A sample letter as well as contact information can be found here:
http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=25745

Please consider advocating for an end to the bloodshed and mass murder that is taking place.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ron Webb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 July 2013 at 4:52pm
Originally posted by Caringheart Caringheart wrote:

Would you want to take the chance that in a few years there would even be another election?
Well, that's a good question, and one I've been trying to answer for weeks now.  Is there any evidence that Morsi was considering cancelling elections?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Caringheart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 July 2013 at 5:46pm
Originally posted by Ron Webb Ron Webb wrote:

Originally posted by Caringheart Caringheart wrote:

Would you want to take the chance that in a few years there would even be another election?
Well, that's a good question, and one I've been trying to answer for weeks now.  Is there any evidence that Morsi was considering cancelling elections?

Hi Ron,
I don't know, I haven't been following that closely, but I believe he was displaying those dictatorial qualities that the Egyptians were trying to rid themselves of when they elected him.  That would cause fear to rise in me, so surely it does in them.
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever
"I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ron Webb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 July 2013 at 7:26pm

Originally posted by Caringheart Caringheart wrote:

I don't know, I haven't been following that closely, but I believe he was displaying those dictatorial qualities that the Egyptians were trying to rid themselves of when they elected him.

Actually, Mubarak (his predecessor) was a relative moderate, opposed to Islamic fundamentalism and seen by many as "soft" on Israel.  He was also too cozy with the US for many hard-liners.

Quote That would cause fear to rise in me, so surely it does in them.

Be careful of projecting your own attitudes on the people of a very different culture.  You don't think it possible that a majority of Egyptian Muslims might actually want an Islamic dictatorship?

Addeenul �Aql � Religion is intellect.
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