Does Islam need to evolve?

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W.S.

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Joined: 14 August 2011
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Points: 86

Posted: 04 May 2013 at 2:43am

NABA wrote:

In ch 4 v 34-yes it is written that husband can beat his wife but in such a way that there should not b any scar mark on her body and the need of beating is the last resort if a husband finds that his wife is not loyal,firstly he should stop talking to him,then if not then stop sharing bed and even after this she doesn't realise her mistake then the norm of beating comes.

I know about those steps. Refuse to talk to her and then refuse to sleep with her, and if that doesn't bring her back into a state of submission and obedience, beat her. In order words, act like a psycho towards her. Btw, the verse in question doesn't say anything about not leaving any marks on her body. What would her "mistake" be, anyway? Speaking her mind?

NABA wrote:

even in that the wrong meaning is taken of that verse in which men are known as kaiyaam for women,yes they are but in the financial sense not all aspects.

Then maybe the Quran needs to clarify that.

NABA wrote:

Allah regards a woman as fortress of devil in several places,unfortunately people take double meaning of the verses and take them in cultural practices.

And that would mean that they are morally weak?

NABA wrote:

if all people read Quran with translation then most of the problems. will b solved.

Even problems within a marriage? You don't solve problems by not talking about them. Communication is the key, haven't you heard? If your wife is being "rebellious" and you use the psycho treatment to shut her up, it could, in the long run, be damaging to her mental health and possibly to yours, too.

NABA wrote:

you know that how people gloom on birth of daughter.if U read Quran Allah clearly forbids even the gloomy expression on birth of daughter.this is mentioned in Surah Al Nahl ch 16 v 58.

I know they do that in some cultures, yes.

NABA wrote:

in Surah Al Takweeh ch 81 v 8-9-Allah will ask all the daughters who were killed due to female foeticides that for what fault they were killed on judgment day.

God will ask foetuses why they were killed? And why would he do that if he knows everything? (rhetorical questions)

NABA wrote:

therefore there is no fault at all in Islam its the people who had created this chaos.in Surah An Nisa ch 4 v 40-Allah is never unjust even in the least degree.Allahfiz

If that's the case then perhaps Islam isn't fit for human beings. Saying that there is no fault at all in Islam is a dangerous road, because it leads to dogma. However, if you admit that Islam isn't completely flawless, then you can fix those flaws.

Btw, you didn't answer my other questions, and I'm assuming it's because you can't.

NABA

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Posted: 05 May 2013 at 8:49am

As far as other questions R concerned U asked what about approaching ur wives when they are not in periods,well a husband can approach his wife whenever he wants,it is not weird,but that depends upon the nature of husband whether he is understanding or not,not all humans R same.once upon a time prophet said to sahabas-if U do sexual intercourse with ur wife its a charity,sahabas wonder how,then prophet said since U R not doing adultery hence its a charity.regarding Allah despite knowing everything still ask foetuses,seems like U read Qur'an only to criticize it,well doesn't matter,in the next verse I.e ch 81 v 10-Allah will make pages public means he will show our record in front of everybody when all the people will rise from dead,and gathered in the hereafter.regarding about damaging mental health,well brother since we were discussing the steps in dealing with rebellious wives,most of them realise there mistakes in steps 1 n 2.option of beating is the last and rare resort.it depends on nature of individual,some are understanding and some are stubborn.

W.S.

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Joined: 14 August 2011
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Points: 86

Posted: 06 May 2013 at 2:24am

NABA wrote:

As far as other questions R concerned U asked what about approaching ur wives when they are not in periods,well a husband can approach his wife whenever he wants,it is not weird,

In a sense, I would love to have a wife that I could be with whenever I wanted. But looking at it objectively, you realize how wrong that would be; you don't own your wife's body just because she's your wife. She is the sole owner of her body.

NABA wrote:

but that depends upon the nature of husband whether he is understanding or not,not all humans R same.

Which is why that verse should be omitted. Some men do mistreat their wifes. So thanks for proving my point!

NABA wrote:

once upon a time prophet said to sahabas-if U do sexual intercourse with ur wife its a charity,sahabas wonder how,then prophet said since U R not doing adultery hence its a charity.

Seems to me like a poor attempt at justifying treating your wife like a sex object. How could that ever be charity? The Prophet says it is! Well, then! BadaBing BadaBoom!

NABA wrote:

regarding Allah despite knowing everything still ask foetuses,seems like U read Qur'an only to criticize it,well doesn't matter,

It's hard not to get caught when it comes to some verses. I checked out that site that Matt posted: http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/index.htm

NABA wrote:

in the next verse I.e ch 81 v 10-Allah will make pages public means he will show our record in front of everybody when all the people will rise from dead,and gathered in the hereafter.

Going through everybody's record ought to take a while. See what I'm saying?

NABA wrote:

regarding about damaging mental health,well brother since we were discussing the steps in dealing with rebellious wives,most of them realise there mistakes in steps 1 n 2.option of beating is the last and rare resort.it depends on nature of individual,some are understanding and some are stubborn.

The third step is called domestic abuse and it's a crime that can be traumatic to the victim, but I didn't refer only to the third step. I think that step 1 and 2 can have very negative effects on her and on the marriage as a whole, especially the first step. Not talking about problems is a common strategy among couples, I think, but it's not a good strategy because it doesn't make the problem go away. Perhaps in the short run it will, but long-term it'll only get worse. If she can't speak her mind and/or you refuse to listen and talk to her for too long, she'll have to keep everything bottled up inside and that's what can be damaging. She may not become mentally ill but she might very well become that unhappy, bitter hag that nobody finds pleasant, when she could've been happy and a blossoming flower still, if only you would have listened to her and respected her.

I wish you would put your Quran aside for just a moment and think for yourself instead.

NABA

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Posted: 07 May 2013 at 9:05am

if you are so much against Islam then y male Islam is written below your name,if you are not agreeing with Allah and prophet that's your problem not mine.Allah has led instructions to run our life and Allah has given us free will to follow it or not.that's y I said depending upon nature,if a person daily reads Qur'an the most important virtue he develops is patience,automatically the problem will b solved because after that even if wife does not want sex for whole life,even the husband will not force her.because a person cannot b called a Muslim if he is not virtuous.the words u spoke about owning wife's body etc all those non sense.prophet also said among you the best believer is one who is good to his family members especially wife,whatever prophet says it is in direct relation with verses of Qur'an,the verse of charity was to realise the importance of verse of Surah Al Israa ch 17 v 32 to mankind in which Allah forbids adultery,the saying of prophet in this post is in relation with Surah Al tehrim ch 6 v 66,by this it means that there is no harm to fulfill your sexual needs with your own wife.most educated people have common sense when to approach when not to approach.as not all men are abusive,similarly not all women are innocent.u R not allien to the present scenario that pre-mariatal sex,adultery are becoming common.i ask you what would you do when this situation comes in front of you,would u greet her happily.moreover don't try to estimate power of Allah,Allah can go through record of whole mankind within a microsecond.Surah Al Ikhlaas ch 112 verse 4-WA lamya ku lahu kuffuan ahad,meaning there is nothing like him.

Edited by NABA - 07 May 2013 at 9:11am

W.S.

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Points: 86

Posted: 08 May 2013 at 6:48am

NABA wrote:

if you are so much against Islam then y male Islam is written below your name,if you are not agreeing with Allah and prophet that's your problem not mine.

I converted to Islam and according to Islam, once you're in you can't get out! Isn't that so? Seriously, I'm starting to lean more and more towards atheism or agnosticism. There may be a God and there may not be. No one knows. I thought that the more I learned about the Quran and hadiths, the clearer things would get. But it only gets weirder. And I'm not too fond the Quran's self-righteous and extremely judgemental tone. There are so many verses that say that the disbelievers who deny "the Truth" are losers who will be punished in Hell. You can't know that there is a God; there is no such "Truth"; however, you may have religious faith and believe in God. If you know there is a God, that's means you're either completely brainswashed, or psychotic. And in Islam you have to be certain.

NABA wrote:

Allah has led instructions to run our life and Allah has given us free will to follow it or not.that's y I said depending upon nature,if a person daily reads Qur'an the most important virtue he develops is patience,automatically the problem will b solved because after that even if wife does not want sex for whole life,even the husband will not force her.

The problem won't automatically be solved, not necessarily, because it's not that simple. We're complex creatures. It has to do with your genes and your upbringing, your schooling and whatnot, not just whether you've reading the Quran or not. Reading the Quran may make you more patient but maybe you happen to have a great libido, or traces of ADHD, for example.

NABA wrote:

because a person cannot b called a Muslim if he is not virtuous.

Then there are many Muslims that can't be called Muslims. It's not uncommon for male Muslims to have non-Muslim girlfriends.

NABA wrote:

the words u spoke about owning wife's body etc all those non sense.prophet also said among you the best believer is one who is good to his family members especially wife,whatever prophet says it is in direct relation with verses of Qur'an,the verse of charity was to realise the importance of verse of Surah Al Israa ch 17 v 32 to mankind in which Allah forbids adultery,the saying of prophet in this post is in relation with Surah Al tehrim ch 6 v 66,by this it means that there is no harm to fulfill your sexual needs with your own wife.most educated people have common sense when to approach when not to approach.as not all men are abusive,similarly not all women are innocent.

That still doesn't make it charity; it only makes it a non-adulterous act. If your wife doesn't want to for whatever reason, it's the complete opposite of charity. In a sense, your wife does not own her own body if you have access to it whenever you want, even when she doesn't want to.

NABA wrote:

u R not allien to the present scenario that pre-mariatal sex,adultery are becoming common.i ask you what would you do when this situation comes in front of you,would u greet her happily.

I don't know about India, but here pre-marital sex is the norm and adultery is not unheard-of, unfortunately. About your question, it would depend on the situation and on who she was.

NABA wrote:

moreover don't try to estimate power of Allah,Allah can go through record of whole mankind within a microsecond.Surah Al Ikhlaas ch 112 verse 4-WA lamya ku lahu kuffuan ahad,meaning there is nothing like him.

No, I meant that it would take an absurdly long time for everybody else - who are gathered there - to go through all those records once they're shown.

Now, about the question of a woman's testimony beings worth only half of that of a man.

The Prophet said, "Isn't the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man?" The women said, "Yes." He said, "This is because of the deficiency of a woman's mind."

Uhm... right. This is not applicable today. Would you agree?

About the view of women, here's another hadith:

"If I were to order someone to prostrate before other than God, I would have commanded woman to prostrate before her husband. If a husband tells his wife to keep carrying a load of stones from that red mountain to that black mountain, she must obey him whole heartedly."

Men and women are different, generally speaking. Men are often better than women at certain things, and women are often better than men at certain things. Also, I think that a lot of women like their husbands to be a little bossy. But to expect your wife to obey your every command like a well-trained dog? That's not cool.

NABA

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Posted: 09 May 2013 at 9:13am

we all learnt big bang theory in schools about formation of whole universe,it was discovered by scientists in early 1900's,Allah mentioned it clearly in Surah Al Anbya ch 21 v 30,then there are layers of waves within the sea,this fact was also discovered in between 1800-1900's.Allah mentioned this in Surah An Noor ch 24 v 40-when Allah compares the nature of disbeliever with the fact mentioned above,1400 years ago in Qur'an.how it is possible then??similarly in Surah An Nisa ch 4 v 56-Allah says that we will give new layers of skin to evil ones everytime when they are burnt to feel pain in hereafter indicating skin as sense organ.this fact was also discovered by scientists in 1800's.there are many things in Qur'an to prove existence of Allah.for a person to b a Muslim it is not necessary to have Arabic name or belonging to Muslim family,a person becomes a Muslim when he follows Qur'an.and i always prefer Qur'an over Hadeeth.talking about genes once again the question comes about individual's nature,as I said human beings are given free will to obey Allah's commands or not.that's the difference between human beings and angels,angels don't have free will,they had to follow Allah's commands.so don't blame Islam blame the human beings

Edited by NABA - 09 May 2013 at 9:24am