The Haj is shirk ?

AbuKhalid wrote: Hello Caringheart and everyone! Thx for the welcome, and yes I am actually new, You do you realize that there is absolutely zero archeological evidence to support the stories told regarding Abraham and the Ka'aba? What kind of evidence are you looking for? Given its place in the desert, where few brave ones treaded ... yes, its hard to find evidence. It has been an Isolated place. Nevertheless, it has been documented: "Diodorus Siculus was a Greek historian of 1st century BC who wrote Bibliotheca Historica, a book describing various parts of the discovered world. The following lines are the English translation of Greek quoted by Gibbon from the book of Diodorus Siculus (Diodorus of Sicily) describing the 'temple' considered to be the the holiest in the whole of Arabia."And a temple has been set-up there, which is very holy and exceedingly revered by all Arabians." [Translated by C H Oldfather, Diodorus Of Sicily, Volume II, William Heinemann Ltd., London & Harvard University Press, Cambridge, Massachusetts, MCMXXXV, p. 217.] G E von Grunebaum says: "Mecca is mentioned by Ptolemy, and the name he gives it allows us to identify it as a South Arabian foundation created around a sanctuary." [G E Von Grunebaum, Classical Islam: A History 600-1258, George Allen & Unwin Limited, 1970, p. 19] So we know its older than the Christian era. Apart from this, The Quran which doesnt contain mistakes relate this. The bible also, although afflicted by some changes does a good job relating this place: Refer to Genesis 21:17-22. V21 say he lived in paran and then read Isiah 42 ... when you reach verse 11, you'll see that this is the place where Ishmael's decendents live but the best description of paran is in Deu 33:2 which is south of Sinai http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/search=Isaiah+42&version=NIV Just a side point, if you are so interested in archeology .. you might want to look into why the bible descrbes a worldwide flood when archaeological facts say its local! a mistake which the Quran doesnt have. To conclude my response to you caringheart, let me just say that the Kaaba is a mosque, that Muslims pray TOWARDS, and NOT to, and Islam declares worship is for the One true God ... my God and Yours ... HE is Allah

Greetings AbuKhalid,

The stories in the Bible are well backed up by archaelogical evidence confirming people and places, whereas there is no archaeological evidence to back up the stories of the quran connecting Abraham with Mecca.  That's all I'm saying.

There is no question that Mecca was a place of pilgrimage... for the pagans.

As regards the flood story... every religious tradition has a flood story, so how do you account for this?  I say, either one of two things...
1.  There was a worldwide flood (not the one I adhere to)
2.  People all across the globe originated from a common place (consistent with the Bible) and then spread out to the world therefore carrying the flood story with them.  Bible fallacy?  I don't know.  It is just possible that people used the only words that they had... and to them perhaps their 'whole world' was flooded so that is how it came to be recorded.  I can see how this story would have been one that was embellished.  Have you ever really believed that every animal of the earth could be collected into a single ark for 40+ days and nights, without seeking to kill one another?  Lions with giraffes and such?  And what about water animals, like Hippo's and alligators?  It is quite conceivable that God only warned that there would be a great flood and for Noah to build an ark and take into it everything that he would need to sustain his family.  This amazing story of survival would easily have grown into a tall tale by years of its re-telling by oral tradition, would it not?

I don't know that anything has ever been able to be proven one way or the other, as it goes, regarding the flood.  I'm pretty sure it is still an open question.

I do believe that the Ka'aba is today, a mosque, that muslims pray towards.  I do not believe that Abraham ever had anything to do with it though.

Salaam and blessings to you,
Caringheart


Edited by Caringheart - 20 August 2013 at 9:34pm

so could U repeat the answer plz??bcoz few days ago some of our posts have been deleted,moreover could U explain this to me about what does this mean gospel of mark ch 16 v 17-18-if they drink the deadly thing they shall not b hurt.