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nospam001 View Drop Down
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Points: 149 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nospam001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 March 2013 at 1:06am
Originally posted by Experiential Experiential wrote:

The issue for me however is whether the Koran is really the eternal, literal Word of God, unchanging, and really a Miracle book?
Are you daring to suggest that 'Uthmān ibn 'Affān might have deliberately changed a few words here and there, to suit his own agenda? Just because he could? As if a caliph would ever contemplate such a thing - even when that might help avert a civil war. Preposterous!
God has the right to remain silent. For His advocates, however, each resigned shrug is a missed opportunity to win new converts.
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Points: 311 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Experiential Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 March 2013 at 12:22am
Originally posted by nospam001 nospam001 wrote:

Originally posted by Experiential Experiential wrote:

The issue for me however is whether the Koran is really the eternal, literal Word of God, unchanging, and really a Miracle book?
Are you daring to suggest that 'Uthmān ibn 'Affān might have deliberately changed a few words here and there, to suit his own agenda? Just because he could? As if a caliph would ever contemplate such a thing - even when that might help avert a civil war. Preposterous!

Well, considering all the first few Caliphs were murdered and the violent civil wars that tore Islam apart in those early days it doesn�t surprise me if Uthman changed the Quaran for political reasons.
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Points: 867 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NABA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 April 2013 at 1:58am
Originally posted by Aussie Aussie wrote:

It would seem I posted this thread in a rarely visited sub forum, I hope it's ok to repost it here
"If Muhammad was illiterate, how did he know Classical Arabic?"

Our prophet Muhammad(pbuh),used to memorise the message from the angel Gabriel and then he narrate these verses to his companions(Sahabas),if you read Qur'an you will notice there is no book on earth that can match it.Allah even challenges to produce verses equal to it in Surah An Yunus ch 10 v 38 Surah Al Hud ch 11 v 13.
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Points: 311 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Experiential Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 May 2013 at 12:33am
Originally posted by NABA NABA wrote:

Originally posted by Aussie Aussie wrote:

It would seem I posted this thread in a rarely visited sub forum, I hope it's ok to repost it here
"If Muhammad was illiterate, how did he know Classical Arabic?"

Our prophet Muhammad(pbuh),used to memorise the message from the angel Gabriel and then he narrate these verses to his companions(Sahabas),if you read Qur'an you will notice there is no book on earth that can match it.Allah even challenges to produce verses equal to it in Surah An Yunus ch 10 v 38 Surah Al Hud ch 11 v 13.

I accept the challenge. I have read much of the Koran and I find many other books and poems I have read far superior to anything in the Koran.

There is ample evidence to prove the Koran is not  a miracle.
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Points: 52 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Empiricist Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2013 at 2:16am

The Quran Dilemma book also discusses these same issues and was written by FORMER Muslim scholars.  Their agenda is to find the TRUTH.  There is only one.  Once you realize the fact that the Koran had many different versions, and that many Muslims disagreed on the content, and that Muhammed was not around to clarify and in fact wrote none of it, then you cannot say that it is 100% accurate or even holy.  So then it really is not any better than the Bible, and the Bible should be given more credibility, especially the words and works of Jesus.  Maybe they are true?  Maybe Muslims should heed his words, or at least study them and decide for yourself what is true.  We all have the ability to discern truth.  If you never read it you will never know it.  You cannot be sure of the Koran any  more than the bible, so you need to decide for yourself. 



Edited by Empiricist - 19 May 2013 at 2:19am
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Points: 2991 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Caringheart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 2013 at 8:58am
Originally posted by Empiricist Empiricist wrote:

The Quran Dilemma book also discusses these same issues and was written by FORMER Muslim scholars.  Their agenda is to find the TRUTH.  There is only one.  Once you realize the fact that the Koran had many different versions, and that many Muslims disagreed on the content, and that Muhammed was not around to clarify and in fact wrote none of it, then you cannot say that it is 100% accurate or even holy.  So then it really is not any better than the Bible, and the Bible should be given more credibility, especially the words and works of Jesus.  Maybe they are true?  Maybe Muslims should heed his words, or at least study them and decide for yourself what is true.  We all have the ability to discern truth.  If you never read it you will never know it.  You cannot be sure of the Koran any  more than the bible, so you need to decide for yourself. 


My point exactly.  No one should ever dismiss something without reading it for themselves.  No one should simply take the word of another.
As it says in the Biblical scriptures;
'test the scriptures to see that they are true'
21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
and, 'study to show thyself approved'

15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever
"I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis
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Points: 867 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NABA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2013 at 10:00am

Qur'an has no versions,it is one and the last revelation of Allah,there are many scientific facts mentioned in Qur'an 1400 years ago  ,which scientists today are discovering,example in Surah Al Furqaan ch 25 v 61-the moon has no light of its own,it reflects the light of sun,this fact was discovered by scientists many years after revelation of Qur'an,science has not developed yet to understand Quran
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Points: 311 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Experiential Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2013 at 12:40am
Originally posted by NABA NABA wrote:

Qur'an has no versions,it is one and the last revelation of Allah,there are many scientific facts mentioned in Qur'an 1400 years ago  ,which scientists today are discovering,example in Surah Al Furqaan ch 25 v 61-the moon has no light of its own,it reflects the light of sun,this fact was discovered by scientists many years after revelation of Qur'an,science has not developed yet to understand Quran

 

Yes the Quaran did have many versions. The ancient Quaran found at Sunna in Yemen in 1972 proves this.

And it was because of the confusion that these different versions caused, that Caliph Uthman had to destroy them.

 

To say the Quaran has scientific facts actually destroys the authority of the Qur�an. There are scientific journals, books, and scientific papers that we could read to find out more than the Qur�an teaches on any subject.

So if we can learn more about one subject in the Qur�an by reading from science then why not other subjects too? How can Muslims claim that the Qur�an contains all the guidance mankind needs for living? Perhaps we need to read elsewhere? How do they know that the Qur�an teaches us all we need to know about God�s nature? Or about how he wants us to live? Perhaps they need to read elsewhere to get the full picture? And so on.

Your "modern science proves the Qur�an" argument destroys the authority of the Qur�an.
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