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islamispeace 
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 Topic: The Ishmael Complex
Posted: 13 September 2014 at 10:51am |
 Power of God wrote:
Of course you are right Yahwe is the Lord of hosts the Lord of armies so this tells you He is the warrior God.
The patriarchs knew his name since Adam's time cause he said to Moses, I am the God of Abraham,Isac and Jacob. |
This is again a circular argument. You are basing this on the Bible, but as we have already seen, the earliest evidence contradicts the Bible because it shows that the Israelites originally referred to God as "El", not as "Yahweh". Therefore, the patriarchs would not have used the name "Yahweh".
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Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)
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Posted: 12 September 2014 at 4:08pm |
islamispeace wrote:
Power of God wrote:
It certainly was because the Edomites was decendants of Esau and Esau was the twin son of Isaac and Isaac was the son Abraham thats why all of was fimiliar with thier real God Yahweh even Ishmial was also worshiping Yahweh so it was not something out of the ordinary .
But Edomites become wicked. I have loved you,� says Yahweh.
�But you ask, �How have You loved us?�
�Was not Esau Jacob�s brother?� declares Yahweh. �Yet I have loved Jacob, but Esau I have hated, and I have turned his hill country into a wasteland and left his inheritance to the desert jackals.�
Edom may say, �Though we have been crushed, we will rebuild the ruins.� But this is what Yahweh Almighty says: �They may build, but I will demolish. They will be called the Wicked Land, a people always under the wrath of Yahweh. You will see it with your own eyes and say, �Great is Yahweh�even beyond the borders of Israel!� (Mal. 1:2-5) |
So you refer to the Bible to confirm the Bible. That's called a circular argument.
The archaeological and historical evidence shows that "Yahweh" was a "warrior-god" that did not originate with Israel, but with Edom. If the Biblical patriarchs were familiar with "Yahweh", then why is there no evidence of it among the Israelites until much later? Why does the earliest evidence show that the Israelites referred to God as "El"?
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Of course you are right Yahwe is the Lord of hosts the Lord of armies so this tells you He is the warrior God.
The patriarchs knew his name since Adam's time cause he said to Moses, I am the God of Abraham,Isac and Jacob.
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islamispeace
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Joined: 01 November 2005
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Posted: 12 September 2014 at 7:06am |
Power of God wrote:
It certainly was because the Edomites was decendants of Esau and
Esau was the twin son of Isaac and Isaac was the son Abraham thats why
all of was fimiliar with thier real God Yahweh even Ishmial was also
worshiping Yahweh so it was not something out of the ordinary .
But Edomites become wicked.
I have loved you,� says Yahweh.
�But you ask, �How have You loved us?�
�Was not Esau Jacob�s brother?�
declares Yahweh. �Yet I have loved Jacob, but Esau I have hated, and I
have turned his hill country into a wasteland and left his inheritance
to the desert jackals.�
Edom may say, �Though we have been crushed, we will rebuild the ruins.�
But this is what Yahweh Almighty
says: �They may build, but I will demolish. They will be called the
Wicked Land, a people always under the wrath of Yahweh. You will see it
with your own eyes and say, �Great is Yahweh�even beyond the borders of
Israel!� (Mal. 1:2-5) |
So you refer to the Bible to confirm the Bible. That's called a circular argument. The archaeological and historical evidence shows that "Yahweh" was a "warrior-god" that did not originate with Israel, but with Edom. If the Biblical patriarchs were familiar with "Yahweh", then why is there no evidence of it among the Israelites until much later? Why does the earliest evidence show that the Israelites referred to God as "El"?
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Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)
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Power of GOD
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Posted: 10 September 2014 at 8:17pm |
islamispeace wrote:
Power of God wrote:
Moses said to God, "Suppose I go to the Israelites and say to them, 'The God of your fathers has sent me to you,' and they ask me, 'What is his name?' Then what shall I tell them?"
YHWH and Elohim frequently occur with the word tzevaot or sabaoth ("hosts" or "armies", Hebrew: צבאות) as YHWH Elohe Tzevaot ("YHWH God of Hosts"), Elohey Tzevaot ("God of Hosts"), Adonai YHWH Tzevaot ("Lord YHWH of Hosts") and, most frequently, YHWH Tzevaot ("YHWH of Hosts").
Whether the Holy Name (written as YHWH) is derived from Eyheh or whether the two are individual concepts, is a subject of debate amongst historians and thoelogians .
Muhammad never told his followers that his God is the God of "hosts" Allah is only a noun for a god not a specific name for his god.
In revealing his mysterious name, YHWH ("I AM HE WHO IS", "I AM WHO AM" or "I AM WHO I AM"), God says who he is and by what name he is to be called. This divine name is mysterious just as God is mystery. It is at once a name revealed and something like the refusal of a name, and hence it better expresses God as what he is - infinitely above everything that we can understand or say: he is the "hidden God", his name is ineffable, and he is the God who makes himself close to men.
I Am that I Am ehyeh a�er ehyeh IS THE DIRECT TRANSLATION OF GOD'S NAME WE MUST CALL GOD ON HIS REAL NAME OR ELSE WE ARE ON A ROAD TO NO WHERE. |
You try to dismiss the fact that the name "Yahweh" has its roots in Edomite culture by copying yet another unnamed source which claims that it is a "subject of debate" among scholars. Even if this was true, it seems to me that you should be more concerned with this revelation rather than your pseudo-scholarly rants about the Muslim belief in Allah (Glorified and Exalted be He). As I said, Arab Christians and Jews had no problem referring to God as Allah. And as scholars like Mark Smith note, the Israelites referred to God as "El" long before they referred to Him as "Yahweh". The latter was borrowed from Edom/Midian.
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It certainly was because the Edomites was decendants of Esau and Esau was the twin son of Isaac and Isaac was the son Abraham thats why all of was fimiliar with thier real God Yahweh even Ishmial was also worshiping Yahweh so it was not something out of the ordinary .
But Edomites become wicked.
I have loved you,� says Yahweh.
�But you ask, �How have You loved us?�
�Was not Esau Jacob�s brother?� declares Yahweh. �Yet I have loved Jacob, but Esau I have hated, and I have turned his hill country into a wasteland and left his inheritance to the desert jackals.�
Edom may say, �Though we have been crushed, we will rebuild the ruins.�
But this is what Yahweh Almighty says: �They may build, but I will demolish. They will be called the Wicked Land, a people always under the wrath of Yahweh. You will see it with your own eyes and say, �Great is Yahweh�even beyond the borders of Israel!� (Mal. 1:2-5)
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islamispeace
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Posted: 10 September 2014 at 9:20am |
Power of God wrote:
Moses said to God, "Suppose I go to the Israelites and say to them,
'The God of your fathers has sent me to you,' and they ask me, 'What is
his name?' Then what shall I tell them?"
YHWH and Elohim frequently occur with the word tzevaot or sabaoth ("hosts" or "armies", Hebrew: צבאות) as YHWH Elohe Tzevaot ("YHWH God of Hosts"), Elohey Tzevaot ("God of Hosts"), Adonai YHWH Tzevaot ("Lord YHWH of Hosts") and, most frequently, YHWH Tzevaot ("YHWH of Hosts").
Whether the Holy Name (written as YHWH) is derived from Eyheh or whether the two are individual concepts, is a subject of debate amongst historians and thoelogians .
Muhammad never told his followers that his God is the God
of "hosts" Allah is only a noun for a god not a specific name for his
god.
In revealing his mysterious name, YHWH ("I AM HE WHO IS", "I AM WHO
AM" or "I AM WHO I AM"), God says who he is and by what name he is to be
called. This divine name is mysterious just as God is mystery. It is at
once a name revealed and something like the refusal of a name, and
hence it better expresses God as what he is - infinitely above
everything that we can understand or say: he is the "hidden God", his
name is ineffable, and he is the God who makes himself close to men.
I Am that I Am ehyeh a�er ehyeh IS THE DIRECT TRANSLATION OF GOD'S NAME
WE MUST CALL GOD ON HIS REAL NAME OR ELSE WE ARE ON A ROAD TO NO WHERE. |
You try to dismiss the fact that the name "Yahweh" has its roots in Edomite culture by copying yet another unnamed source which claims that it is a "subject of debate" among scholars. Even if this was true, it seems to me that you should be more concerned with this revelation rather than your pseudo-scholarly rants about the Muslim belief in Allah (Glorified and Exalted be He). As I said, Arab Christians and Jews had no problem referring to God as Allah. And as scholars like Mark Smith note, the Israelites referred to God as "El" long before they referred to Him as "Yahweh". The latter was borrowed from Edom/Midian.
Edited by islamispeace - 10 September 2014 at 9:21am
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Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)
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Posted: 06 September 2014 at 2:10am |
islamispeace wrote:
Power of GOD wrote:
Show me in the Quran what is true Muhammad could not even read or write Muhammad didn't even had a religious back all that he have done was to glorifiy a pagan god whos name was Allah the god of the Nabataeans, Allah does not came from the bible as muslim apoligist argued
Nabataeans
The name Allah was used by Nabataeans in compound names, such as "Abd Allah" (The Servant/Slave of Allah), "Aush Allah" (The Faith of Allah), "Amat Allah" (The She-Servant of Allah), "Hab Allah" (Beloved of Allah), "Han Allah" (Allah is gracious), "Shalm Allah" (Peace of Allah), while the name "Wahab Allah" (The Gift of Allah) was found throughout the entire region of the Nabataean kingdom.
From Nabataean inscriptions, Allah seems to have been regarded as a "High and Main God", while other deities were considered to be mediators before Allah and of a second status, which was the same case of the worshipers at the Kaaba temple at Mecca
Pre-Islamic Meccans
Meccans worshipped him and Al-lāt, Al-�Uzz�, Manāt as his daughters. Some Jews might considered Uzair to be his son. Christians and Hanifs used the term 'Bismillah', 'in the name of Allah' and the name Allah to refer to the supreme Deity in Arabic stone inscriptions centuries before Islam |
 So what's your point with this latest plagiarized post of yours? The irony is that you refuted yourself with this post because it clearly states:
"Christians and Hanifs used the term 'Bismillah', 'in the name of Allah' and the name Allah to refer to the supreme Deity in Arabic stone inscriptions centuries before Islam."
Speaking of "pagan gods", are you aware of the origins of the name "Yahweh"? Why don't you research that? Here, let me get you started. Mark S. Smith writes in his book "The Early History of God: Yahweh and the Other Deities in Ancient Israel", pp. 32-33:
"...Yahweh, originally a warrior-god from Sinai/Paran/Edom/Teiman was known separately from El at an early point in early Israel. Perhaps due to trade with Edom/Midian, Yahweh entered secondarily into the Israelite highland religion."
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Moses said to God, "Suppose I go to the Israelites and say to them, 'The God of your fathers has sent me to you,' and they ask me, 'What is his name?' Then what shall I tell them?"
YHWH and Elohim frequently occur with the word tzevaot or sabaoth ("hosts" or "armies", Hebrew: צבאות) as YHWH Elohe Tzevaot ("YHWH God of Hosts"), Elohey Tzevaot ("God of Hosts"), Adonai YHWH Tzevaot ("Lord YHWH of Hosts") and, most frequently, YHWH Tzevaot ("YHWH of Hosts").
Whether the Holy Name (written as YHWH) is derived from Eyheh or whether the two are individual concepts, is a subject of debate amongst historians and thoelogians .
Muhammad never told his followers that his God is the God of "hosts" Allah is only a noun for a god not a specific name for his god.
In revealing his mysterious name, YHWH ("I AM HE WHO IS", "I AM WHO AM" or "I AM WHO I AM"), God says who he is and by what name he is to be called. This divine name is mysterious just as God is mystery. It is at once a name revealed and something like the refusal of a name, and hence it better expresses God as what he is - infinitely above everything that we can understand or say: he is the "hidden God", his name is ineffable, and he is the God who makes himself close to men.
I Am that I Am ehyeh a�er ehyeh IS THE DIRECT TRANSLATION OF GOD'S NAME
WE MUST CALL GOD ON HIS REAL NAME OR ELSE WE ARE ON A ROAD TO NO WHERE.
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islamispeace
Senior Member
Joined: 01 November 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 2187
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Posted: 30 August 2014 at 10:49am |
Power of GOD wrote:
Show me in the Quran what is true Muhammad could not even read or write Muhammad didn't even had a religious back all that he have done was to glorifiy a pagan god whos name was Allah the god of the Nabataeans, Allah does not came from the bible as muslim apoligist argued
Nabataeans
The name Allah was used by Nabataeans in compound names, such as "Abd Allah" (The Servant/Slave of Allah), "Aush Allah" (The Faith of Allah), "Amat Allah" (The She-Servant of Allah), "Hab Allah" (Beloved of Allah), "Han Allah" (Allah is gracious), "Shalm Allah" (Peace of Allah), while the name "Wahab Allah" (The Gift of Allah) was found throughout the entire region of the Nabataean kingdom.
From Nabataean inscriptions, Allah seems to have been regarded as a "High and Main God", while other deities were considered to be mediators before Allah and of a second status, which was the same case of the worshipers at the Kaaba temple at Mecca
Pre-Islamic Meccans
Meccans worshipped him and Al-lāt, Al-�Uzz�, Manāt as his daughters. Some Jews might considered Uzair to be his son. Christians and Hanifs used the term 'Bismillah', 'in the name of Allah' and the name Allah to refer to the supreme Deity in Arabic stone inscriptions centuries before Islam |
So what's your point with this latest plagiarized post of yours? The irony is that you refuted yourself with this post because it clearly states:
"Christians and Hanifs used the term 'Bismillah', 'in the name of Allah'
and the name Allah to refer to the supreme Deity in Arabic stone
inscriptions centuries before Islam."
Speaking of "pagan gods", are you aware of the origins of the name "Yahweh"? Why don't you research that? Here, let me get you started. Mark S. Smith writes in his book "The Early History of God: Yahweh and the Other Deities in Ancient Israel", pp. 32-33:
"...Yahweh, originally a warrior-god from Sinai/Paran/Edom/Teiman was known separately from El at an early point in early Israel. Perhaps due to trade with Edom/Midian, Yahweh entered secondarily into the Israelite highland religion."
Edited by islamispeace - 30 August 2014 at 10:54am
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Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)
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Power of GOD
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Posted: 29 August 2014 at 11:49pm |
islamispeace wrote:
Power of God wrote:
That doesn't answer my question, why would God start a false religion and the he discovered that he made a mistake? Do you think God will do that answer this for me please. |
Who said He started a false religion? You need to actually read the Quran instead of blindly being spoon-fed by your fellow Christian apologists. People start false religions, not God.
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Show me in the Quran what is true Muhammad could not even read or write Muhammad didn't even had a religious back all that he have done was to glorifiy a pagan god whos name was Allah the god of the Nabataeans, Allah does not came from the bible as muslim apoligist argued
Nabataeans
The name Allah was used by Nabataeans in compound names, such as "Abd Allah" (The Servant/Slave of Allah), "Aush Allah" (The Faith of Allah), "Amat Allah" (The She-Servant of Allah), "Hab Allah" (Beloved of Allah), "Han Allah" (Allah is gracious), "Shalm Allah" (Peace of Allah), while the name "Wahab Allah" (The Gift of Allah) was found throughout the entire region of the Nabataean kingdom.
From Nabataean inscriptions, Allah seems to have been regarded as a "High and Main God", while other deities were considered to be mediators before Allah and of a second status, which was the same case of the worshipers at the Kaaba temple at Mecca
Pre-Islamic Meccans
Meccans worshipped him and Al-lāt, Al-�Uzz�, Manāt as his daughters. Some Jews might considered Uzair to be his son. Christians and Hanifs used the term 'Bismillah', 'in the name of Allah' and the name Allah to refer to the supreme Deity in Arabic stone inscriptions centuries before Islam
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