A question for Muslims

TG12345 wrote: There is no way to prove or disprove the claim that Adam was 60 cubits tall. As both the Bible and Quran teach, there were times when giants existed on the earth. Unlike the Quran, the Bible does not teach that Adam lived in heaven prior to his coming to earth.

Have you never read the bible? The whole Judeo-Christian principle is based on the fall of Adam and Eve from heaven to earth after the 'original sin'. If you go back and re-read the bible you will see that they were living in paradise, God even came to see them in the garden.

TG12345 wrote: OK, I am derailing my own thread temporarily but I really need to ask you... when you were a kid did you watch the Smurfs? LOL that was one of the coolest shows ever!!!!

Hi TG,

I am sorry your thread is so derailed but I am having such fun reading this.
I loved the smurfs, and now I am picturing little Roman smurfs on horseback fighting battles.



Edited by Caringheart - 01 February 2013 at 10:02am

Caringheart wrote: Wow Rational, that's cool.  You had the smurfs in arabic?

Yeah, When I found that video on youtube it brought back some memories. I still remember those voices. ~25 years ago!

TG12345 wrote: There is no way to prove or disprove the claim that Adam was 60 cubits tall. As both the Bible and Quran teach, there were times when giants existed on the earth. Unlike the Quran, the Bible does not teach that Adam lived in heaven prior to his coming to earth.

Abu Loren wrote:   Have you never read the bible? The whole Judeo-Christian principle is based on the fall of Adam and Eve from heaven to earth after the 'original sin'. If you go back and re-read the bible you will see that they were living in paradise, God even came to see them in the garden.

Salaam Alaikum, Abu Loren.

Nowhere does the Bible say that the Garden of Eden was located in Heaven. It also doesn't instruct believers to insult non-Christians. As a "former Christian", you should know these things.

TG12345 wrote:   However, what I want to examine is what Muhammad said afterwards, namely that people have been decreasing in stature/size/height since the creation of Adam up until the time Muhammad spoke these words.

Abu Loren wrote: Obviously if Adam (Alayhi Salaam) was created 60 cubits then it is very plain that humanity has been decreasing in size. If you can find a 90 feet man then you can say that mankind has NOT been decreasing.

If Muhammad said it had decreased in size, maybe he would have been right. But he didn't say that. He said that humanity had been decreasing in size continuously from the creation of Adam to his time.

TG12345 wrote: If people have been decreasing in stature starting with the creation of Adam and up to the 7th century AD, how could it be possible that Tutankhamun who lived and died almost a milennia before Rome became an empire was slightly shorter than the average Roman soldier? Clearly, people have not been continuously decreasing in size between the time of Adam's creation and the time of Muhammad. How do you reconcile this evidence with Muhammad's words?

Abu Loren wrote:   What is the point of comparing people born within a space of a couple of thousans years? Height increases and decreases for various reasons. The main factor being diet. Nations that enjoy success in trade and wealth are bound to rise in height due to the readily available food that is on offer. An example is when the British fought the Indians in the 18th century, they claimed the people there, in the North West Frontier were giants. They were undoubtedly taller than the British. The British people were shorter in the 18th century than they are now because of the wealth and hence the food that is available to them.   Another example is the Japanese. The modern Japanese enjoy American junk food and this has resulted in these people growing in height.   Your data is useless as we need the evidence to compare people who are 90 feet tall, so if you don't have that evidence then the likelihood IS that people are decreasing in height.

Why do you need to find someone 90 feet tall to disprove what Muhammad said?

He didn't say that people are smaller than Adam was. He said that from the time of Adam to the 7th century, they had been continuously decreasing in size.

That statement is quite simply not true. People's heights had gone up and down between the time of Adam's creation and the 7th century AD, due to a variety of factors. However, they have not been decreasing continuously. My "useless data" indicates that at least for several centuries between the creation of Adam and the 7th century, the height of human beings at time rose and at other times decreased. This shows that people have not been continuously been getting smaller until the 7th century.