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gaps in religious revelation

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nirvana View Drop Down
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    Posted: 29 January 2013 at 8:00am
christian and muslim religions claim to be for all mankind. but consider this.

1.until after death of Jesus, the middle eastern people were the only ones receiving 'revelation' from GOD according to the Bible stories. WHAT ABOUT THE REST OF THE WORLD?

2.even before christianity can spread to the whole world, along comes islam with some more new information. GOD CHANGED HIS MIND ABOUT HOW HE WANTS PEOPLE TO LIVE?

3.Even during those times when both these religions existed at the same time, millions lived and died without ever hearing about them. GOD DID NOT CARE HOW THESE PEOPLE LIVED?

4. If GOD asks me why i was not following any religion , whichever turns out to be the true one, i will say i was confused about what was the real message among the contradicting accounts. Also, since GOD did not care about the millions who did not hear about His religions, He should treat me same way.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nirvana Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 March 2013 at 2:12am
Therefore, according to Paul, Jesus saved us by dying for our sins. His death was the act of salvation: he gave himself as a ransom. Notice however, according to Paul, Jesus died not, however, for everybody, but for those ONLY who believed in him. I sure would not have wanted to live in the first century, say in Iceland, because if I had, according to Paul, the chance of the news of Yeshua's death for my sin surely most likely would not have arrived in Iceland in time for my consideration. Most likely, not having radio or television in the first century, I would have died in Iceland never hearing such a "gospel" and the inability of Jesus to make sure such a "necessary" message we be taken to me would have surely doomed me.
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honeto View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote honeto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 March 2013 at 2:56pm
I believe it still is dooming you. If you are naive to not know the answers to your questions but quick to come to your conclusions as you did, please tell me and I will or someone will guide you.
Hasan

Edited by honeto - 26 March 2013 at 2:58pm
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote honeto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 March 2013 at 3:03pm
Also I see you are pretending here to be a Christian, yet I found in one reply to Nausheen in another post you said: "i am agnostic".
Are you playing with beliefs?
Hasan
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nirvana Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 March 2013 at 9:21pm
Originally posted by honeto honeto wrote:

I believe it still is dooming you. If you are naive to not know the answers to your questions but quick to come to your conclusions as you did, please tell me and I will or someone will guide you.
Hasan

Since you are a muslim, i will paint a different picture for you. First of all, God let his message from Jesus be corrupted, trinity introduced and did nothing. Watched on as humans debated what gospels to discard, centuries after jesus died, and let the wrong side win. Let the falsehood prevail over truth and decided to intervene after 6 centuries. 6 centuries where falsehood was allowed to reign. Even then, all these messages/revelations up to Jesus were meant only for the jews, to hell with the rest of the world. With the message of Jesus truly messed up, here comes Muhammad claiming all previous scripture came from God. And now all of a sudden, his revelations were for the whole world. The scriptures in Bible since beginning of time read like a history of the Jewish people. God did not care about other peoples until Muhammad?

Now to islam. It certainly has less loopholes than christianity but they exist. The names and timings of ALL 5 daily salat cannot be found. The way to pray as muslims do today is not outlined. Hajj rituals not outlined.
Hadith; Allah says Quran should be only hadith. And here comes Bukhari with no authority, collecting sayings from people centuries/generations after death of Muhammad. Hadith themselves show it was easy to forge hadiths and chain of narration. Even after weeding out the 'bad' hadith, many laughable things still included, contradictory things. Also, Abu Hurayra is to islam what paul is to christianity. I would have expected most hadith to originate from the closest companions of Muhammad, not a person who was suppoosed to be a child at the time.

Now imagine Quran vs Hadith. Quran is a concise 1 volume book. Vs volumes of saheeh bukhari, sahih muslim. Ifa muslim needs hadith to live like a true muslim, how long will it take to read all these books?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nirvana Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 March 2013 at 9:24pm
Originally posted by honeto honeto wrote:

Also I see you are pretending here to be a Christian, yet I found in one reply to Nausheen in another post you said: "i am agnostic".
Are you playing with beliefs?
Hasan
i am agnostic. If i want to show christians why i dont believe in their religion, i have to show my view of their beliefs, same for muslims.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NABA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 April 2013 at 8:55am
In Surah Al Tahaa ch 20 v 130,Surah Al Israa ch 17 v 78,Allah commands us to offer salaah 5 times a day,yes exact timing is not mentioned,but phases of whole day is mentioned such as dawn,noon,evening and night.because Allah knows man will not b always ready to offer salaah due to his job or any important duty,that's y he clearly mention the phases.as far as the way salaah should b performed,Allah clearly mentions about wudu in Surah Al Maidaah ch 5 v 6,after Allah we have to follow prophet Muhammad,that's y the whole Muslim Ummah offer salaah the way he used to,because he is the last prophet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote honeto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 April 2013 at 11:08am
Originally posted by nirvana nirvana wrote:

Originally posted by honeto honeto wrote:

I believe it still is dooming you. If you are naive to not know the answers to your questions but quick to come to your conclusions as you did, please tell me and I will or someone will guide you.
Hasan

Since you are a muslim, i will paint a different picture for you. First of all, God let his message from Jesus be corrupted, trinity introduced and did nothing. Watched on as humans debated what gospels to discard, centuries after jesus died, and let the wrong side win. Let the falsehood prevail over truth and decided to intervene after 6 centuries. 6 centuries where falsehood was allowed to reign. Even then, all these messages/revelations up to Jesus were meant only for the jews, to hell with the rest of the world. With the message of Jesus truly messed up, here comes Muhammad claiming all previous scripture came from God. And now all of a sudden, his revelations were for the whole world. The scriptures in Bible since beginning of time read like a history of the Jewish people. God did not care about other peoples until Muhammad?

Now to islam. It certainly has less loopholes than christianity but they exist. The names and timings of ALL 5 daily salat cannot be found. The way to pray as muslims do today is not outlined. Hajj rituals not outlined.
Hadith; Allah says Quran should be only hadith. And here comes Bukhari with no authority, collecting sayings from people centuries/generations after death of Muhammad. Hadith themselves show it was easy to forge hadiths and chain of narration. Even after weeding out the 'bad' hadith, many laughable things still included, contradictory things. Also, Abu Hurayra is to islam what paul is to christianity. I would have expected most hadith to originate from the closest companions of Muhammad, not a person who was suppoosed to be a child at the time.

Now imagine Quran vs Hadith. Quran is a concise 1 volume book. Vs volumes of saheeh bukhari, sahih muslim. Ifa muslim needs hadith to live like a true muslim, how long will it take to read all these books?



Nirvana,
sorry I was away for a while but I am back to answer your post now.
No, you got it all wrong how a Muslim sees it.
It did not start with Jesus (pbuh) or the Gospels.
In Islam Adam was the first man and the First propeht who was taught by God, what is right and what is wrong and who God is and to worship none else but God.

Now for you to be able to understand, the question is why did God sent Noah, Moses, David and so many other prophets and messengers? Simple answer in Islam is and that 's what logic proves too that people tend to shift off from what they are taught over time. The examples of these shifts are there in what we know as the Bible, as well as in the Final Testament to mankind, the Quran. The shift or change did not happen because God could not protect His word as you put it. That is not true, because God is all capable, if you think He is not then you need to know Him first.
What happened with the teachings prophets brought was that some of the people did not follow them, some did, and some modified them to fit their own needs! That's how you see sects and different religions born.
So shifting from what Jesus (pbuh) taught simply took people in a wrong direction. He preached about God, whom he worshiped and served. That got twisted by some, who took his virgin birth wrong by saying blasphemous things like God begot him, that he was son on God, some even said he was God.
Such a monstrous blasphemy had to be corrected and people needed to be guided into right. So God sent His pure word again in form of The Quran, The Final Testament, so people like me and you who fall under it's jurisdiction have a chance toward salvation, toward understanding the purpose of our life and directing our worship to who it belongs, only God and none else.
We believe this message was always the same, since Adam and all the people received guidance from God. Some prophets of Islam (which is simply submitting to the will of God) are mentioned in the Quran and previous scriptures: Noah, Abraham, Moses, David, Jesus (may God's peace be upon them all). There were many more prophets who came to guide men that are not mentioned by name but we love, respect and accept them as God's prophets and follow the message and the prophet sent for our time, the Quran and Prophet Mohammed (pbuh).

As far as other issues, they can be discussed and based on evidence followed. The Quran says that we will find an example in prophet Mohammed (pbuh) to follow. The Quran mentions the five salats and how to prepare for it. How salat is performed correctly depends their knowledge of the written tradition left by those who saw it performed first hand by the prophet (pbuh) and his companions. In Islam salat like Hajj is a tradition that has occurred unceasingly since the time of the prophet (pbuh) generation after generation so frequently (five times a day)unlike anything else and that has preserved it's originality, not to mention the fact that none is authorized to alter.    
Quran and Hadith combined makes a Muslim complete and true believer. Like the example of Salath you brought up, it is to be performed five times a day according to the Quran. Details of how it is performed properly can be found in the Hadith, and yes if you are not raised in a practicing or non Muslim house, you might have to study a bit extensive to learn more. Of course the intention comes first, we can never learn and know all, it is a never ending thing. But God has made clear and we must take important things first, like who God is, what is purpose of life, what will happen after I die. All those are very simply explained in the Quran many times over as reminders.

May God increase us in knowledge and guide to the truth and right those who seek it. Our salvation is only in living by the truth, never compromise on that!

Hasan

Edited by honeto - 30 April 2013 at 11:25am
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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