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well behaved non believer vs bad behaved believer
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Caringheart View Drop Down
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Points: 2991 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Caringheart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 February 2013 at 11:02am
"The same straight path has been revealed in both our books and we understand it to be the seeking and surrender to God's will."
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"I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis
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Webber View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Nur_Ilahi Nur_Ilahi wrote:

shall come in his own name, him ye will receive"

Originally posted by Webber Webber wrote:

Does that sound like Muhammad to you?
Jesus was talking about a false prophet, not Muhammad.

If it was not Prophet Muhamamd, did they receive the false prophet?
Which false prophet would you like it to be? It's not like we've gone without.
 
If you insist this is talking about Muhammad then you have to believe he came in his own name, not in the name of Allah. I ask again, does this sound like Muhammad?
 
Quote In Islam the worst of a Muslim is still better than the best of a non Muslim. What is the reason? Because even how bad that Muslim is, he still believes that there is no other God worthy of being worshipped but Allah and Prophet Muhammad is His Messenger. That person even though goes to hell at first, he would one day be transferred to heaven due to the Mercy of Allah Ar-Raheem Most Merciful.
 
Christians, even trinitarians believe that there is no other God worthy of being worshipped but God and Jesus, His Messenger.
 
I didn't know Muslims believed in pergatory. Is this in the Quran?
The Bible teaches we get one life and one judgement. As I see it, Pergatory is a man made second chance. You'll have to show me where God decided it was a good idea and adapted it.
 
Quote Muhammed Atta the supposed terrorist that was accused of 911? Well, in my opinion, if he is a Muslim and died as a Muslim, especially if he were executed by the authorities, meaning he knows when he will die, then most probably his place would be in heaven because he will have the chance to say the kalimah shahadah in his last moments before death.
 
I'll go along with supposed terrorist, but let's talk about a real suicide bomber for a second. First the kalimah shahadah, the the Allah scream, then the suicide. The sin comes after the call-out, bye-bye.
 
Quote While Mother Theresa if she died denying the Oneness of God, then only God knows.
 
I doubt she died denying the oneness of God, I'd believe she died believing in the trinity, but these two are not the same.
 
Quote Anyway, judgement lies in the hands of God.
Ahhh, the one liner that should have stopped this thread after the first post.
 
Quote I am a non-believer in the deity of Jesus (as) and in the idea that he died for my sins.

Will I, a non-believer, inherit the kingdom of heaven?

What about all the people that lived before Jesus was born? Did Jesus love them? They didn't know about Jesus so will they inherit the kingdom of heaven?
 
These are good questions.
The book of James had a lot of contraveresy before it was put in the NT for the same reason. James obviously a knew his brother Jesus to be a Prophet yet human, not God. Wonder where a disciple would be about now.
 
In the eyes of stodgey Christians you may be an unbeliever, but we know better. The same straight path has been revealed in both our books and we understand it to be the seeking and surrender to God's will.
 
As for all the people who died pre Jesus, I guess you could ask the same about all who died pre Muhammad.
 
 
I'm a Gentile.
Numb. 6:24-26
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Caringheart View Drop Down
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Greetings Rational,

Good questions.  I was actually just pondering those questions myself, this morning before I got up.

I have sort of a partial answer to your first question...
You will believe in Jesus when you meet Him on judgement day.

As to the rest... I am pondering. Smile

The thing is I don't believe that just believing in Jesus(belief in God) gains admittance to heaven.  I believe actions matter.  Actions that come from a true heart and not just for show.  God will judge the heart.  Actions must be a reflection of a true heart... and if the heart is true it will show in the actions.  Belief in Jesus, (love for God, because of the great the Love He has shown for us in the giving of His Son), leads me to good actions.  Jesus leads me to the Father through Love, the love He first showed me.
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son

Jesus may very well say to anyone, 'You never knew me'... You only proclaimed to know me by proclaiming my name, but you did not do the things you were commanded to do... in your heart you never truly belonged to the Father.

19 We love Him, because he first loved us.

20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?

21 And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.

Salaam,
CH


Edited by Caringheart - 25 February 2013 at 1:24pm
Let us seek Truth together
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Rational View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Caringheart Caringheart wrote:

This makes it easier for me to see why muslims do not understand Jesus.  It seems that muslims have an excuse for all their behavior, and so due to their own beliefs, by transference they assume this is the belief by followers of Jesus.
Ermm

I am a non-believer in the deity of Jesus (as) and in the idea that he died for my sins.

Will I, a non-believer, inherit the kingdom of heaven?

What about all the people that lived before Jesus was born? Did Jesus love them? They didn't know about Jesus so will they inherit the kingdom of heaven?


Edited by Rational - 25 February 2013 at 6:44am
الله
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Caringheart View Drop Down
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Quote  
In Islam the worst of a Muslim is still better than the best of a non Muslim. What is the reason? Because even how bad that Muslim is, he still believes that there is no other God worthy of being worshipped but Allah and Prophet Muhammad is His Messenger. That person even though goes to hell at first, he would one day be transferred to heaven due to the Mercy of Allah Ar-Raheem Most Merciful.

This makes it easier for me to see why muslims do not understand Jesus.  It seems that muslims have an excuse for all their behavior, and so due to their own beliefs, by transference they assume this is the belief by followers of Jesus.
Ermm
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Dear Kristin,

Originally posted by Kristin Kristin wrote:

�So then, Nur Ilahi.......Did Mother Theresa get to heaven before Muhammed Atta, or the other way around?

Muhammed Atta the supposed terrorist that was accused of 911? Well, in my opinion, if he is a Muslim and died as a Muslim, especially if he were executed by the authorities, meaning he knows when he will die, then most probably his place would be in heaven because he will have the chance to say the kalimah shahadah in his last moments before death.

While Mother Theresa if she died denying the Oneness of God, then only God knows. Anyway, judgement lies in the hands of God. He is Al-Alim - All Knowing and He is Al-Ghafur - Most Forgiving.
Ilahi Anta Maksudi, Wa Redhaka Mathlubi - Oh Allah, You are my destination, Your Pleasure is my Intention.
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Kristin View Drop Down
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In Islam the worst of a Muslim is still better than the best of a non Muslim. What is the reason? Because even how bad that Muslim is, he still believes that there is no other God worthy of being worshipped but Allah and Prophet Muhammad is His Messenger. That person even though goes to hell at first, he would one day be transferred to heaven due to the Mercy of Allah Ar-Raheem Most Merciful.


So then, Nur Ilahi.......Did Mother Theresa get to heaven before Muhammed Atta, or the other way around?
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Kristin View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Nur_Ilahi Nur_Ilahi wrote:

Originally posted by nirvana nirvana wrote:

who goes to heaven.
this is for all christians and muslims people. will the most compassionate/honest/polite hindu/Buddhist go to hell while the most treacherous/lying/rude/murderous etc muslim/christian goes to heaven?


In Islam the worst of a Muslim is still better than the best of a non Muslim. What is the reason? Because even how bad that Muslim is, he still believes that there is no other God worthy of being worshipped but Allah and Prophet Muhammad is His Messenger. That person even though goes to hell at first, he would one day be transferred to heaven due to the Mercy of Allah Ar-Raheem Most Merciful.

While the best of a non-Muslim is still considered a kafir if he does not acknowledge that Allah the Creator of all the universe is the God worthy of being worshipped. But still we cannot do any judgement by ourselves. Allah is Al-Aleem (All Knowing) He knows what is in the heart of each and every one of His Creations.
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