Apostle Paul |
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Caringheart
Senior Member Joined: 02 March 2012 Status: Offline Points: 2991 |
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Greetings AhmadJoyia,
I thought I had answered. I found this in my files. for islamicity, interfaith, PaulAbout the canonization of scripture I posted a helpful reply on the thread, islamicity,interfaith, the original sin. asalaam and blessings to you, Caringheart Edited by Caringheart - 01 February 2016 at 5:01pm |
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Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
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AhmadJoyia
Senior Member Joined: 20 March 2005 Status: Offline Points: 1647 |
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iec786
Senior Member Joined: 06 February 2012 Status: Offline Points: 508 |
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carringheart i did your work for you.Guile means lies Paul was a lire
Bibliography Information "Entry for 'Guile'". A King James Dictionary. GUILE gil (mirmah; dolos): "Guile" is twice the translation of mirmah, "fraud," "deceit" (Psalms 34:13, "Keep .... thy lips from speaking guile"; Psalms 55:11, "deceit and guile," the Revised Version (British and American) "oppression (margin "fraud") and guile"); once of `ormah, "craftiness," "guile" (Exodus 21:14); once of remiyah, "deception," "fraud" (Psalms 32:2, "in whose spirit there is no guile"); in the New Testament of dolos, "bait," hence, generally, "fraud," "guile," "deceit"; Septuagint for mirmah (Isaiah 53:9, English Versions of the Bible "deceit") and for remiyah (Job 13:7, English Versions of the Bible "deceitfully"; John 1:47; 2 Corinthians 12:16, "Being crafty, I caught you with guile"; 1 Thessalonians 2:3; 1 Peter 2:1; 2:22; 3:10, quoted from Psalms 34:13; Revelation 14:5, "In their mouth was found no guile," the Revised Version (British and American) after corrected text, "no lie"). Paul's words in 2 Corinthians 12:16 have sometimes been quoted in justification of "guile" in religious work, etc.; but he is not describing his actual procedure; but that which the Corinthians might have attributed to him; the lips of the Christian must be kept free from all guile (Psalms 34:13; 1 Peter 2:1, etc.; The Wisdom of Solomon 1:5 "A holy spirit of discipline will flee deceit" (dolos), the Revised Version (British and American) "A holy spirit"). "Guile" does not appear in Apocrypha; dolos is frequently rendered "deceit." The Revised Version (British and American) has "guile" for "subtilty" (Genesis 27:35; Acts 13:10); "cover itself with guile" for "is covered by deceit" (Proverbs 26:26); "with guile" for "deceitfully" (Genesis 34:13); "spiritual milk which is without guile" for "sincere milk of the word," the English Revised Version, margin "reasonable," the American Revised Version, margin, Greek "belonging to the reason" (compare Romans 12:1; 1 Peter 2:2); "guileless" for "harmless" (Hebrews 7:26). W. L. Walker Edited by iec786 - 09 April 2016 at 5:39am |
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Caringheart
Senior Member Joined: 02 March 2012 Status: Offline Points: 2991 |
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Greetings Ismail,
I hope that you have been well. I understand where this is problematic, because the old testament scriptures (Hebrew) are clearly in condemnation of the use of guile. When we consult the Greek meaning(new testament, Pauls words)... 'bait', or 'subtlety', we have to consider what was Paul really saying.... and yes, why would he say that he used 'guile' which God clearly condemns in the early scriptures, to praise his own behavior? In context it seems he was only meaning to say that he did not seek to place burdens(of laws) on anyone but instead gently brought them to see the Truth of what Yshwe came to teach. He (like Yshwe Himself) used gentle methods and means of reaching the people, and sharing the Wisdom of God with them. I realize that anyone could choose any number of ways to define Paul's meaning... but when you take the scriptures as a whole... when you know the whole life of Paul, then you see the whole picture... the true picture. Paul was a learned man, and he used his wit, his intelligence, his education, and his learning to win the people to Christ. I believe it was for just such as this, that Yshwe (known as Jesus) selected Paul to be His Disciple. For those who reject Paul, I have to say that it is because they do not know the life of Paul. A person does not give up a life of such great position... in favor of persecution... easily or lightly. asalaam and blessings, Caringheart Edited by Caringheart - 25 April 2016 at 12:51pm |
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Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
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whirlingmerc
Newbie Joined: 09 May 2016 Status: Offline Points: 15 |
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Unfortunately there are allot of superficial objections to Paul that are more like attacks on a caracature of Paul than an examination of the real thing
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iec786
Senior Member Joined: 06 February 2012 Status: Offline Points: 508 |
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Greetings Caringheart,
I understand where this is problematic,not at all you see this entire book the so called New testament is 90% written by Paul the self made Apostle.Jesus did not see this New Testament nor did he read it nor did he preach it.God did not write it nor did he inspire it and that says it all.Read the red letter Bible and you will see the words of Jesus in probably 2% of the New testament.The rest is in black. Paul the imposter used the teaching of laws of Moses and nailed the laws to the cross.Most of your new testament books are anonymous books.Apocrypha. [Quote]Paul was a learned man, and he used his wit, his intelligence, his education, and his learning to win the people to Christ.Quoted He knew the people needed a leader and he stepped in with his guile and did the job.To believe someone to be an apostle who never saw Jesus and then claim apostle hood is horrendous.This Jew saw the opportunity to make money out of the Christians and he went for it.Look at America today totally run by Jews so much so that they gave you a Jewish God and a Jewish child with a Jewish book to follow. Greetings IEC. |
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Caringheart
Senior Member Joined: 02 March 2012 Status: Offline Points: 2991 |
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Greetings Ismail, As I said, unless you actually read, and know the whole history of Paul, of what Yshwe taught, and of what Paul taught.... There is no deception in Paul.... he does not seek to deceive. He does not lead people away from God. Paul leads to Yshwe, and thus to God, the Creator... the One true Father of all creation. Paul does not preach anything that Yshwe Himself did not preach. Deceit would have led away from Christ, and Paul only leads to Christ. (I'm putting in a note here that that is exactly what Muhammad did... lead people away from Christ, denied them the message of Christ... 'and allah is the greatest deceiver... the best of schemers' (from the qur'an)) When considering Paul, one must examine whether or not one believes in the vision of Christ' appearance to Paul... - there were witnesses to the fact that he was blinded - there were witnesses to the fact that he did not regain his sight until Ananais visited - there were witnesses to the great conversion of Paul; he went from following orders to murder 'the Christians', to leading people to follow them Paul may have been 'a murderer (at) the beginning', but he did not remain a murder... he was changed, and he carried the thorn of his prior doings in his side, for the rest of his life.- Paul was always subject to the judgement of the earlier Apostles, he did nothing of his own accord, but only that which received the approval of Christ's first Disciples; read Galatians 2:9 If you believe in Christ' appearance to Paul, then you also may believe that Paul had the guidance of Christ in ministry. Paul followed the example of Christ, who Himself entered under the rooves of deemed sinners, to share repast with them, even while the Jewish priest tried to entrap and condemn Him for it. Christ Himself joined with the people in order to reach them. It was His example which Paul followed. What is it that you think Paul gained in leading people to Christianity? He put his life on the line to do it, and lived most of his life as a fugitive and/or imprisoned because of it. If you want to understand Paul you should read his second letter to Timothy, chapter 1. (2 Timothy 1) The beautiful, powerful, words of Paul: 38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, 39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. asalaam and blessings to you, Caringheart Note: I think it is sad to see that someone is still filling you with feelings of hate towards the Jews. I had hoped you'd had time to progress in a positive direction in your absence. God's peace and blessings to you. Edited by Caringheart - 11 May 2016 at 6:15pm |
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Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
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