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Apostle Paul

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AhmadJoyia View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AhmadJoyia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 December 2015 at 8:34am
Originally posted by Caringheart Caringheart wrote:

Greetings AhmadJoyia,Yshwe said, 'I was sent to the lost sheep of Israel'.In other words, His time on earth was in ministry to the people of Israel... to the Hebrews who would already be familiar with the Word of God, and thus be teachable.
First of all, I don�t get it when you use ��� in between your reply. From where did you bring this text ��.to the Hebrews�. �? Is it from the Bible or from your own knowledge? This is because at the time of Jesus, I don�t think there were any Hebrews, but the Aramaic speaking Jews.
Originally posted by Caringheart Caringheart wrote:


His instruction to His Disciples after Him, was to go and baptize all people, and teach them about Himself... to spread the Word of God. The non-Jews were able to accept hearing about Yshwe, especially since the Romans were witnesses also to His life on earth.... but first Yshwe needed to teach the people that already believed in the one true God. He first needed their acceptance and their Discipleship.asalaam and blessings,Caringheart
Ok, if you say that Jesus left his dirty work to be done by his disciples then why this rule of so called �Discipleship� has stopped after the Saint Paul? Also, why the aid of the �Holy Spirit� used to canonize the Bible and not from the �disciples of the Jesus�, only few centuries down the time? What about now, are there any �disciples of the Jesus� directly communicating with him like the Saint Paul claimed?
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786iec View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 786iec Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 January 2016 at 12:06pm

Paul the self appointed apostle was a lair.

  

2 Corinthians 12:16


American King James Version (AKJV)

But be it so, I did not burden you: nevertheless, being crafty, I caught you with guile.

American Standard Version (ASV)

But be it so, I did not myself burden you; but, being crafty, I caught you with guile.

Basic English Translation (BBE)

But let it be so, that I was not a trouble to you myself; but (someone may say) being false, I took you with deceit.

Webster's Revision

But be it so, I did not myself burden you; but, being crafty, I caught you with guile.

World English Bible

But be it so, I did not myself burden you. But, being crafty, I caught you with deception.
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AhmadJoyia View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AhmadJoyia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 January 2016 at 11:06am
Originally posted by 786iec 786iec wrote:

...But, being crafty, I caught you with deception.
I don't know exactly, but is this the reason or is it the source as how our Christian brothers explain Trinity through the theory of 'god's self deception' or 'god deceiving his disciples'? Hopefully, brothers like Caringheart or others on the forum may like to reevaluate their argument in support of Trinity or else they may have to abandon it once for all.
Best regards.
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Caringheart View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Caringheart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 January 2016 at 10:52pm
guile - cleverness -
Paul was an intelligent, learned man
that is all that this word means

It annoys me when I see Paul so maligned, because it is the only way some can find to argue against the scriptures... yet, they can never once tell me anything that Paul taught that they find so unacceptable, or even contrary to their own beliefs.

Greek concordance:  dolios.... can also mean through subtlety
This is what I take it to mean.
There is nothing that Paul did that can be described as deceitful.

Has anyone of those who take up to criticize, ever read what Paul teaches, or do they just repeat what has been told to them.
Has anyone read the entirety of the passage, of the letter of Paul to the Corinthians?

2 Corinthians 12:14-
14 Now I am coming to you for the third time, and I will not be a burden to you. I don�t want what you have�I want you. After all, children don�t provide for their parents. Rather, parents provide for their children. 15 I will gladly spend myself and all I have for you, even though it seems that the more I love you, the less you love me.

16 Some of you admit I was not a burden to you. But others still think I was sneaky and took advantage of you by trickery. 17 But how? Did any of the men I sent to you take advantage of you? 18 When I urged Titus to visit you and sent our other brother with him, did Titus take advantage of you? No! For we have the same spirit and walk in each other�s steps, doing things the same way.

19 Perhaps you think we�re saying these things just to defend ourselves. No, we tell you this as Christ�s servants, and with God as our witness. Everything we do, dear friends, is to strengthen you. 20 For I am afraid that when I come I won�t like what I find, and you won�t like my response. I am afraid that I will find quarreling, jealousy, anger, selfishness, slander, gossip, arrogance, and disorderly behavior. 21 Yes, I am afraid that when I come again, God will humble me in your presence. And I will be grieved because many of you have not given up your old sins. You have not repented of your impurity, sexual immorality, and eagerness for lustful pleasure.

There may have been some that having never understood the message of Christ, thought it would be good to join with the Christians,
and only later came to understand the message.  The fault is theirs for wantonly joining without first gaining understanding.  The fault is theirs, not Paul's.

Even while Yshwe was with us, here on earth, this happened... as recorded in the book of John:
59 These things said he in the synagogue, as he taught in Capernaum.
60 Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it?
61 When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you?

66 From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.

 It would not be much different than one who impulsively is talked into taking the shahada and then later learns more about the religion and feels like they were tricked into joining with a thing they didn't really understand.

asalaam and blessings,
Caringheart


Edited by Caringheart - 23 January 2016 at 10:59pm
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever
"I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis
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AhmadJoyia View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AhmadJoyia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 January 2016 at 9:25pm
Welcome back to the topic bro Caringheart. I thought you forgot this topic as your reply to my comments dated 21 Dec, 2015 are still awaited, though I do see your postings on other topics of the forum. Regarding your latest post
Originally posted by caringheart caringheart wrote:

....It annoys me when I see Paul so maligned, because it is the only way some can find to argue against the scriptures... ....
Error of +/- 100 years in biblical scriptural authenticity, is of your own confession. What else is left to discuss about?
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Caringheart View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Caringheart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 January 2016 at 9:30pm
Originally posted by AhmadJoyia AhmadJoyia wrote:

]Error of +/- 100 years in biblical scriptural authenticity, is of your own confession. What else is left to discuss about?

Greetings AhmadJoyia,

I confess no such thing. Smile
The Bible is the best guide to life that there is.  It is the Wisdom of God.
asalaam and blessings to you,
CAringheart Smile
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever
"I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis
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AhmadJoyia View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AhmadJoyia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 February 2016 at 7:53am
Your reply to my comment is requested, if you please. I repeat it here. Ok, if you say that Jesus left his dirty work to be done by his disciples then why this rule of so called �Discipleship� has stopped after the Saint Paul? Also, why the aid of the �Holy Spirit� used to canonize the Bible and not from the �disciples of the Jesus�, only few centuries down the time? What about now, are there any �disciples of the Jesus� directly communicating with him like the Saint Paul claimed? In the same argument, why the aid of 'Holy Spirit' not sorted but waited for humans to call the council of Nicea to determine the 'Christ's nature'?

Edited by AhmadJoyia - 01 February 2016 at 7:58am
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airmano View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote airmano Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 February 2016 at 11:39am
Quote Ahmad:
In the same argument, why the aid of 'Holy Spirit' not sorted but waited for humans to call the council of Nicea to determine the 'Christ's nature'?
Well, I guess for the same reasons which kept Allah in a waiting lane for a whopping 1300 years with the unfulfilled intention to (allegedly) finally explain the meaning of Qur'an, 51:47 (by Hubble).


I'd wish I could be that patient: Airmano

Edited by airmano - 01 February 2016 at 12:26pm
The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses (Albert Einstein 1954, in his "Gods Letter")
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