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Abu Loren View Drop Down
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    Posted: 17 January 2013 at 11:12am
As'alaamu Alaikkum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuhu
 
Should we debate with people who has no knowledge of Islam?
 
I am asking this question because we have people here particularly those who claim to be Christians who has read a few chapters of the Holy Qur'an then come here to debate with Muslims as if they have something new to reveal or that they have found something incredible that Muslims must be told. Before they come here they arm themselves with ammuition from anti-Islamic sites and post those same questions that are at those sites.
 
Particular mention must be given to TG12345 and Caringheart who has never even completed reading the Holy Qur'an yet they preach here as if they know something we don't. At first when they join they say that they are here to learn then once they earn our trust they show their true colours. They say things like "Muhammad said this in the Qur'an" or "Muhammed meant well but he was wrong".
 
When we counter these slander, then immediately we are labelled as a hot head or a fundamentalist.
 
Thoughts much appreciated.
 
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lady View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lady Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 January 2013 at 2:08pm
Walaakum Salaam Abu Loren.  I think that as long as someone is geniune with their questions about islam, then it is ok to continue to talk to them about islam. But if someone is not geniune, it does not matter where they are from, you will be able to feel it, and it will show in the way they speak and think.  With those people, islamically we can not continue to entertain their buffoonery.  But once they show, geniunity in wanting to know islam, then we can continue to teach them.
But you must know that it is not just islam that they mock.  They mock others  and themselves along with intimate relationships they have with others as well. It is their own life that is suffering the most, and yet, if they realize this as one of the major true reflection of their unhappiness,then they will self demise this nonsensical behavior they do towards others.
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nothing View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nothing Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 January 2013 at 7:09pm
Originally posted by Abu Loren Abu Loren wrote:

As'alaamu Alaikkum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuhu
 
Should we debate with people who has no knowledge of Islam?
 
I am asking this question because we have people here particularly those who claim to be Christians who has read a few chapters of the Holy Qur'an then come here to debate with Muslims as if they have something new to reveal or that they have found something incredible that Muslims must be told.

Don't debate bro, because in debate you are eager to win, as I have done that myself long ago. Concentrate with the Qur'an only and don't defend hadith, I never defend hadiths, I have seen weird hadiths that troubled me. So yeah I have read them and thats enough. If you notice I never post hadith, yes?
 
Originally posted by Abu Loren Abu Loren wrote:

Particular mention must be given to TG12345 and Caringheart who has never even completed reading the Holy Qur'an yet they preach here as if they know something we don't.


Their beings themselves are not important but the output of their minds. I have change names many times yet my style does not change. Let them write whatever maybe, and if you think you can answer than by all mean, with cool head.

You know, your reply to me about Moses nationality I think was wrong, but hey you have your opinion and I have mine, see how easy it is? It does not matter if Musa was an Israelite to me. Is it to you?

Salaam.



Edited by nothing - 17 January 2013 at 7:14pm
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Abu Loren View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Abu Loren Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 January 2013 at 2:03am
Originally posted by lady lady wrote:

Walaakum Salaam Abu Loren.  I think that as long as someone is geniune with their questions about islam, then it is ok to continue to talk to them about islam. But if someone is not geniune, it does not matter where they are from, you will be able to feel it, and it will show in the way they speak and think.  With those people, islamically we can not continue to entertain their buffoonery.  But once they show, geniunity in wanting to know islam, then we can continue to teach them.
But you must know that it is not just islam that they mock.  They mock others  and themselves along with intimate relationships they have with others as well. It is their own life that is suffering the most, and yet, if they realize this as one of the major true reflection of their unhappiness,then they will self demise this nonsensical behavior they do towards others.
 
As'alaamu Alaikkim M'lady
 
You are right. When a person joins this forum and starts to ask questions then after a while one would be able to discern from these questions what the reason is form him/her to be here. Like you say there are genuine reasons of wanting to learn and underhanded and deceitful quetsions trying to provoke or slander Islam and the Prophet (SalAllahu Alayhi Wa Sallam).
 
The majority of them are deceitful from the beginning by saying that they are here to learn but a few days later they post anti-Islamic garbage.
 
Thanks for your input.
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Abu Loren View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Abu Loren Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 January 2013 at 2:12am
Originally posted by nothing nothing wrote:


Don't debate bro, because in debate you are eager to win, as I have done that myself long ago. Concentrate with the Qur'an only and don't defend hadith, I never defend hadiths, I have seen weird hadiths that troubled me. So yeah I have read them and thats enough. If you notice I never post hadith, yes?
Hadiths must be defended because they are a foundation to Islam evn thought admittedly there are contradictions. The Hadiths are esssential in knowing how we are to conduct our every day life. For example, without the Hadiths we wouldn't know how to pray, how to perform wudu, the times that we should pray etc etc etc.
The Hadiths also contain explanations from the Prophet (SalAllahu Alayhi Wa Sallam) from the verses of the Holy Qur'an. Without these we would be lost and guessing at the unseen.
 
Quote
Their beings themselves are not important but the output of their minds. I have change names many times yet my style does not change. Let them write whatever maybe, and if you think you can answer than by all mean, with cool head.

You know, your reply to me about Moses nationality I think was wrong, but hey you have your opinion and I have mine, see how easy it is? It does not matter if Musa was an Israelite to me. Is it to you?

Salaam.

 
It is crystal clear from the Holy Qur'an that Prophet Musa (Alayhi Salaam) was indeed an Israelite. His mother hid him in a basket and put him in the river to hide him from the Egyptians who were killing all male children. He was found by the wife of the Pharoah and was adopted by them. He grew up as an Egyptian prince until he killed an Egyptian accidentally. Then he had to feel to midian where he married the daughter of Jethro and settle for a while until his calling and meeting with God on mount Tuwa.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nausheen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 February 2013 at 5:54pm
Originally posted by Abu Loren Abu Loren wrote:



As'alaamu Alaikkum Wa Rahmatullahi WaBarakatuhu


Walaikum assalam wa rahamtullah wa barkatuhu,


Originally posted by Abu Loren Abu Loren wrote:

Should we debate with people who has no knowledge of Islam?


In my humble opinion, yes, we should. Because it is a pity if people walk away from here with a wrong information about Islam. We have a duty to do dawah.

However, I personally refrain from commenting or talking to the individual who blasphemes about our beloved messenger, sallallahu alaihe wassallam. It just angers me and I fear losing my poise on the boards, so I want to just leave them alone or tell them they dont know him (sallallahu alaihe wassallam) that is all.

You may have noticed I am posting selected information on prophet sallallahu alaihe wassallam off and on these days. This is because I was contacted on PM (about 2 months ago) with a website blaspheming against the prophet, and this person asked me to comment on it. I was so angry, wanted to fill this entire board with salat-o-salam and ask these people to measure it up with their blasphemy! but anyway, that is a personal problem, I get angry about such matters.


Originally posted by Abu Loren Abu Loren wrote:

I am asking this question because we have people here particularly those who claim to be Christians who has read a few chapters of the Holy Qur'an then come here to debate with Muslims as if they have something new to reveal or that they have found something incredible that Muslims must be told. Before they come here they arm themselves with ammuition from anti-Islamic sites and post those same questions that are at those sites.


Landmines are dangerous, so should they be left as such? No. They should be dislodged.
AbuLoren, your passion for Islam and truth is inspirational, DO NOT COMPROMISE IT. Sometimes you get carried away which disturbes, however you must respond to the falsehood with whatever truth you know.
Reading the Quran and reading its translation is not at all the same. One needs to know the background verses in order to discern correct implications, this is where most people lack knowledge and anti-islamic websites feed on the apparent discrepancy that arises from half information. Thus we must talk even if the other party does not accept our argument, they should be aware there exists a counterargument.



Originally posted by Abu Loren Abu Loren wrote:

Particular mention must be given to TG12345 and Caringheart who has never even completed reading the Holy Qur'an yet they preach here as if they know something we don't. At first when they join they say that they are here to learn then once they earn our trust they show their true colours. They say things like "Muhammad said this in the Qur'an" or "Muhammed meant well but he was wrong".


I understand your concerns. TG has perhaps done some study on his own as well. Caringheart is purely out of anti-islamic agendas. I dont know how they are reading the Quran. Perhaps only the portions which are referenced in any article or talk that they heard about a certain issue.
CH's serious concern is that all muslims have a potential of becoming terrorists or something similar, am afraid. That is really sad, and I want to change that opinion.
One thing that you have to accept about them is that they will always say 'muhammad said such and such in the Quran' sallallahu alaihe wasallam. If they did not they would have been muslims already, so just dont let that part irritate you or you lose the purpose of discussion.



Originally posted by Abu Loren Abu Loren wrote:

When we counter these slander, then immediately we are labelled as a hot head or a fundamentalist.
Thoughts much appreciated.


Umar ibn al Khattab was a hot head - but do you know that Rasul sallallahu alaihe wassallam himself said that even shaytan feared the faith of Umar radiAllahu anhu. The shaytan would not walk on the same street when Umar was walking ... so what is wrong in being labeled - I have been labeled as fundamentalist for wearing a hijab and praying five times a day. We cannot please everybody, but we have a duty to serve The One Who deserves to be worshipped.
Do your duty, but try to distance yourself emotionally from the discussions.

Khair inshAllah.

Edited by Nausheen - 02 February 2013 at 5:58pm
<font color=purple>Wanu nazzilu minal Qurani ma huwa

Shafaa un wa rahmatun lil mo'mineena

wa la yaziduzzalimeena illa khasara.
[/COLOR]
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Caringheart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 February 2013 at 6:22pm
Greetings Nausheen,

Once again you shock and surprise me.
"Caringheart is purely out of anti-islamic agendas"
I really resent that statement because it is absolutely not true, and you have obviously not read all of my posts.
http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24625&KW=beautiful&PID=172671#172671

" I dont know how they are reading the Quran."
Then you should ask, not make assumptions.  I have two copies, separate translations, in my home that I got from the library.  Two copies since that was all that was available, and two copies so that I can make comparisons and be sure to gain a fair and proper understanding.

It seems by your statements here, that you have been presenting a false face to me, and that makes me very sorry to learn.  It certainly does not help my acceptance of followers of islam.

I think it is very rude speaking of others on the forum in third person, rather than addressing them personally and properly.
"If they did not they would have been muslims already, so just dont let that part irritate you or you lose the purpose of discussion. "
You lose the purpose of discussion anyway, if you present a false face.

Salaam,
Caringheart



Edited by Caringheart - 02 February 2013 at 6:47pm
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever
"I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis
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Abu Loren View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Abu Loren Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 February 2013 at 2:51am
Originally posted by Caringheart Caringheart wrote:

Greetings Nausheen,

Once again you shock and surprise me.
"Caringheart is purely out of anti-islamic agendas"
I really resent that statement because it is absolutely not true, and you have obviously not read all of my posts.
http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24625&KW=beautiful&PID=172671#172671

" I dont know how they are reading the Quran."
Then you should ask, not make assumptions.  I have two copies, separate translations, in my home that I got from the library.  Two copies since that was all that was available, and two copies so that I can make comparisons and be sure to gain a fair and proper understanding.

It seems by your statements here, that you have been presenting a false face to me, and that makes me very sorry to learn.  It certainly does not help my acceptance of followers of islam.

I think it is very rude speaking of others on the forum in third person, rather than addressing them personally and properly.
"If they did not they would have been muslims already, so just dont let that part irritate you or you lose the purpose of discussion. "
You lose the purpose of discussion anyway, if you present a false face.

Salaam,
Caringheart

 
Caringheart I've stopped 'debating' with you a long time ago when I realised your agenda here. You and all the other Christians are not here to learn as you claim but to discredit Islam and the Messenger (SalAllahu Alayhi Wa Sallam).
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