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The Final Hurdle of becoming a Muslim is
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nospam001 View Drop Down
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Points: 149 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nospam001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 April 2013 at 8:10pm

Originally posted by maazalisyed maazalisyed wrote:

There are many instances specially in Malaysia and Indonesia, where some Muslims accepted other faith because of lack of Islamic knowledge transferred by parents etc. But when preachers reach there they turn back to Islam, and there is no punishment... If a Muslim rejects Islam or leave his faith, there is always as option of forgiveness, as soon as he comes back towards Islam.
Granted, some ex-Muslims have rejected Islam because of incorrect information. Would Allah() seal their hearts to prevent them coming back? I presume not.

In that case, whose hearts would He() seal? Only those ex-Muslims who continue to reject Islam despite knowing the truth. But no sane person would ever do that, surely.

So we end up with an extra punishment reserved by Allah() for those who are already insane.
God has the right to remain silent. For His advocates, however, each resigned shrug is a missed opportunity to win new converts.
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Webber View Drop Down
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Points: 128 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Webber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 April 2013 at 11:29pm
There should be no punishment. If there is no compulsion in religion then there should be no intimidation for a person searching for answers. God is a very personal God, why leave Him to the explanation of others? Especially those who insist you believe something you don't understand. While they should be saying, "May God bless you in your search, then please enlighten me for I am stagnant."
Islam, being the religion perfected, since Adam...
 
124,000 prophets taught Islam. The Quran says we make no distinction, yet the final hurdle in becoming a Muslim is to place Muhammad above the rest.
 
Unfortunate, we don't have 124,000 accounts, as they would all carry more subjects and wisdom on them. We have but a few.
 
To insist evey man stick to one prophet only is to say you can only have this much of God.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
I'm a Gentile.
Numb. 6:24-26
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honeto View Drop Down
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Points: 2487 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote honeto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 April 2013 at 12:47pm
Webber,
when we put things in wrong order in our head that's when it makes us less sense.
Yes there were 124000 prophets according to Islamic teachings, and it is true according to the Quran we make no distinction between them.
Just like their is a distinction between the first man and prophet, Adam (Pbuh) there is special distinction that prophet Mohammed (pbuh)bears he was the seal of the prophets, the last of the chain of prophets that came to guide humanity. Also for those of us who live after he came as a prophet follow his example and the word of God that came through him puts him closer to us then previously sent ones, as we copy his example. But our love and respect for Jesus, Moses and Abraham (pbut)is in no way less, as they were all Allah's prophets and love ones. They are dear to us so much, that many Muslims name their son's after them as well. Musa (Moses), Ibraheem (Abraham), Daood (David) and Essa (Jesus) are some of most common names among Muslim men, of course Mohammed and Ahmed are more common for the reason I explained above.
Humanity has been living for thousands of years and in far places, so it is not hard for me to understand that   God sent prophets in all eras and times and we also believe that God sent prophets in all people not just to Bani-Israel, even those who were living in far areas then others.
Hasan
The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62
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Points: 2991 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Caringheart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 April 2013 at 1:44pm
"Yes there were 124000 prophets according to Islamic teachings, and it is true according to the Quran we make no distinction between them."

There are those of us who, in keeping with the exhortations of Yeshua Himself, do make a very important distinction.

I am quoting someone else here:
Jesus doesn't teach that all prophets had the same message... Jesus prophesied that there will be false prophets who will deceive many.  I boldened some in the verses below.

http://www.biblegate...w 7&version=NIV
"15 �Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep�s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them."

Since Jesus commanded his followers to love their enemies, bad fruit includes disobeying Jesus' commands.

http://www.biblegate... 24&version=NIV
"4 Jesus answered: �Watch out that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in my name, claiming, �I am the Messiah,� and will deceive many. 6 You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of birth pains.
9 �Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13 but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.
15 �So when you see standing in the holy place �the abomination that causes desolation,� spoken of through the prophet Daniel�let the reader understand� 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house. 18 Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. 19 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now�and never to be equaled again.
22 �If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. 23 At that time if anyone says to you, �Look, here is the Messiah!� or, �There he is!� do not believe it. 24 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you ahead of time."

So, it is important for Jesus' followers to not think that all prophets have the same message. There are people who claim they are prophets with God's Word/Revelation, yet really are false prophets. :(  That is why for Christians, it is important for us to follow what Jesus said, which has by God's protection, power, and grace been preserved for centuries.

and, according to the guidance in the Biblical scriptures, written by author of the book called John;
4 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.

6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.

8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.

10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another.

12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.

13 Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.

14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.

15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.

16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.

18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

19 We love him, because he first loved us.

20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?

21 And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.
So anyone who believes in what Jesus taught, has a discrepancy to deal with.

Salaam.



Edited by Caringheart - 30 April 2013 at 1:52pm
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever
"I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis
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honeto View Drop Down
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Points: 2487 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote honeto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 May 2013 at 1:39pm
CAringheart,
no offense but it seams, you went backwards in all this time and wasted your chance of learning and growing in knowledge. When I said 124000 prophets, I meant these are prophets from God, it does not include any others. It include prophets like Noah, MOses, Abraham, David, JEsus and Mohammed (pbut).
Jesus (pbuh) was himself a prophet, how could he know other than what God told him. And the Bible is not authentic word of God anyway. There is no original Gospel that Jesus preached, so we cannot trust what some men wrote centuries later as versions of Gospels. Those are some of the facts I hear from former Christians, who by God's grace have accepted the truth.
Hasan

Edited by honeto - 02 May 2013 at 1:57pm
The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62
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4 Therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not;

2 But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.

3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

5 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.

6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever
"I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis
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 15 �Watch out for false prophets, who come to you in sheep�s clothing but inwardly are voracious wolves.  16 You will recognize them by their fruit. Grapes are not gathered from thorns or figs from thistles, are they? 17 In the same way, every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree is not able to bear bad fruit, nor a bad tree to bear good fruit. ] 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.  20 So then, you will recognize them by their fruit.

The above quote  is from  Matthew 7 vs 15 onwards. It  is clear that  False prophets are determined by the fruits they produce.
One of the fruits of the prophet Muhammad is the Quran and the religion from it namely Islam.
If one follows the discussion titled  Surah 14ion:4 you will see that I have stated  therein that due to the contradictions  present  in the Holy Quran,  it can in no way construed to be the word of God. It  follows therefore that our Muslim brothers have been led astray. If one  looks at the places in the world  where there  is violence, you will find  most  of the countries  have Islam for their state religion. Most incidents  of violence and terrrorism seem to have an Islamic connection
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NABA View Drop Down
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Points: 867 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NABA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 May 2013 at 10:52pm
first of All,a person cannot be called as a Muslim unless he follows Qur'an,I have said in my previous posts also,unless there is no effort from ourselves to read Qur'an,Allah will not guide us,if a person calls himself as A Muslim automatically he is agreeing with-Surah Al Maidah ch 5 v 32-if U save an innocent human being,as if U have save the whole humanity,if U kill an innocent human being as U have killed the whole humanity.moreover Allah in Surah Al Qasas ch 28 v 83-Allah clearly says that we will provide the home of hereafter only to those who R not causing any violence or mischief on earth,so those people who cause mischief in the name if Islam are building their place in hell,because meaning of a word Islam is acquiring peace by submitting ur will to Allah,another example of peace from Islam is in Surah Al Fussilat ch 41 v 34-Allah says surely bad deed is not equal to good deed,but if we act good towards our enemy then we will see that enemy will become our best friend.
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