a question

honeto wrote: I see that ICE786 has presented a very strong case against original sin theory. Great job, may Allah reward you for your efforts to show the truth to those who seek it. I will add this verse which I think also goes against the original sin theory or claim. "Becoming like little children, sinless": "King James Bible. Matthew 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven." Hasan

Jazakallah-kairen for the duas.

Hi Hasan,

Quote: "In a likely manner any person who will disobey God will be in loss, unless he/she seeks God's forgiveness while in this life and after that obeys God, will find God forgiving and Merciful, according to the Quran.
It is now up to you the individual to whom this knowledge has come to act, to seek, to yourself from the day when your own tongue will testify against yourself.

Response: --- That is right. It was the result of the offence of Adam and Eve that sin came and so as 'Children of Adam' we have the same nature as he had after the sin. --- So they repented before God, and so must we. --- Is that not right?

Surah 7 records what is called the 'Original Sin,' the same as in Genesis 3. --- If you have another name for it or call it "Guilt before God," it amounts to the same thing, does it not? --- We have to repent, ask God's forgiveness, and believe in Him, to come back into His favor, do we not?

Hi Caringheart,

Yes, thank you, --- I do mean that we were all born 'outside' of fellowship with God

Hi Hasan,

Whether you want to acknowledge it or not, the story of �original sin� is found in Surah 7:
21 And he (Satan) swore to them both, that he was their sincere adviser.
22 So by deceit he brought about their fall: when they tasted of the tree, their shame became manifest to them, and they began to sew together the leaves of the garden over their bodies. And their Lord called unto them: "Did I not forbid you that tree, and tell you that Satan was an avowed enemy unto you?"
23 They said: "Our Lord! We have wronged our own souls: If thou forgive us not and bestow not upon us Thy Mercy, we shall certainly be lost."
24 (God) said: "Get ye down. With enmity between yourselves. On earth will be your dwelling-place and your means of livelihood, - for a time."
25 He said: "Therein shall ye live, and therein shall ye die; but from it shall ye be taken out (at last)."
27 O ye Children of Adam! Let not Satan seduce you, in the same manner as He got your parents out of the Garden, stripping them of their raiment, to expose their shame: for he and his tribe watch you from a position where ye cannot see them:

--- (The first penalty from the fall was that they became 'mortal' bodies that would live, go through the aging process and then die, --- whereas, had they not sinned they would have lived forever in the Paradise of God.)
--- (Secondly, they lost their relationship with God and had to �repent of sin� to come back into His presence.
�If thou forgive us not and bestow not upon us Thy Mercy, we shall certainly be lost� --- And this lost position is where natural man is until he repents before God and asks for forgiveness, --- is that not right?)
--- (Thirdly, they were no longer in harmony, but �with enmity between yourselves.� --- They were now individuals with different thoughts and desires, as all humans are. --- Have you noticed any �enmity� in the world today? --- Then people are just acting human, are they not?)
--- (Fourthly, they had to work for their livelihood rather than piking their food off of the trees.)

The �original sin� was, that they listened to Satan and believed his word against the commandment of God. --- Their �original sin� cost them their home in Paradise where their offspring might all have been �angels,� --- instead of humans in our struggle for life down here on planet earth.
--- And this is where, because of this �sin of disobedience� of Adam and Eve, all people born of two parents on earth are born �out of fellowship with God,� or born with a sinful nature, --- Is that not right?
--- You don�t have to teach a child to lie, you have to teach him to tell the truth.
However, little children who die before the age of accountability are taken to God, --- but when children grow up with their sin nature, they are responsible before God like any other adult.

In making reference to this verse, The key word is CONVERTED in Matthew 18:
3 �Assuredly, I say to you, unless you are CONVERTED and become as little children, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.
If you read Matthew 5: 1-16, you will understand what �conversion� means.

Placid