What is this "something else"?

Greetings Hasan,

I have no hatred or prejudice, only the conclusions I have reached from my studies, regarding Muhammad, his life, his teaching, and his leadership.  Some things about Muhammad I am still inconclusive on, but some things I am absolutely certain about.

and I believe you do know the truth about my posts, whether or not you want to acknowledge it.

Salaam,
CH


Edited by Caringheart - 26 November 2012 at 8:08pm

Greetings Nausheen,

I have read extensively from all sides, originally starting out to question the roots and practices of Christianity.  So I have been reading and viewing DVD's across many subjects that call up the history of Islam.  I have been studying the history of England, and the english empire, the moors in Spain, the crusades, the arab conquests, how the early church was formed(Catholicism), the Ottoman empire... goodness, it's too extensive to list all the places my journey has taken me in this study.

Most of my reading has been online and I try to balance it with reading from many sources so as to get a balanced view.  I try to sort out the propaganda, but look for stories from both sides.  I try to look for stories written by people familiar with Islam, those having grown up with it, who can give a birdseye view of what goes on in those countries.  I have been trying to sort Islam the religion, from Islam the culture, and Islam the political.

I did ask one time on the forum where I might go to read an unbiased history of Muhammad.  Do you have a suggestion?
I had begun reading the hadiths but admit I have not gotten nearly as far with them as I would like.  I have found that it takes a lifetime to understand the religion that one was born into, let alone begin to understand the religion of others.  That's why I came to the forum for conversation.  I thought it would be easier to talk to people and wanted to get to know them.   Reading is not my strong suit.  It takes a great deal of time and energy that I do not have.  Though I keep plowing on because I have an insatiable desire for knowledge.  :-)

Salaam,
Caringheart


Edited by Caringheart - 26 November 2012 at 8:07pm

To continue from a few posts back:

--- It is interesting that Surah 2 is entitled �The Cow� after the heifer in verse 71.
Quote: 2:72 Remember ye slew a man and fell into a dispute among yourselves as to the crime: But God was to bring forth what ye did hide.
73 is the mystery verse because it says --- �Strike (the body) with a piece of the (Heifer).� --- If the heifer refers to the heifer in verse 71, it is speaking about the OT sacrifice. --- So the mystery goes even deeper.

However, Maulana says this in his commentary on verse 73:
�The construction of the phrase, i˙rib∂-hu bi-ba�˙i-ha, (Strike him with some of it) is rather difficult, but a comparison with 4:157 makes the meaning clear.
Oarb, as shown in 60a, conveys a number of significations. It means striking as well as likening.�
--- So, in his commentary, Maulana Muhammad Ali says the word used can mean, �striking,� or �likening,� --- or, �comparing,� --- as Sher Ali renders it.

Sher Ali: �Then WE said, �Compare this incident with some other similar ones and you will discover the truth.� Thus does GOD give life to the dead and show you HIS Signs that you may understand.�

It was impossible to �strike the dead body� of Jesus �with a piece of the heifer,� but to make a �comparison� or �apply the incident� of the sacrifice of Jesus for sin, --- to the ashes of the heifer from Numbers 19, for the purification from sin, is possible.

--- As the Old Covenant required �the shedding of blood� for the remission of sins, so, the choice of an unblemished heifer was burned with �cedar wood, hyssop, and scarlet,� --- and the ashes were saved to sprinkle on the unclean person
If we �apply� to the dead body, --- or �compare� the dead body of Jesus to the sacrificed heifer (which was the perfect sacrifice of hundreds of years earlier for the Jewish people), --- we can see a parallel --- that Jesus was the perfect Sacrifice for sin, --- (as were the ashes of the heifer from the OT Covenant that God instructed, for the purification from sin).

--- The difference is that the dead body of Jesus was brought back to life, --- and therefore conquered death. --- And in this we �see His Sign,� of �newness of life� or �resurrection from the dead.� --- And then, after Jesus was raised from the dead, God took Him up to Himself, --- as it says in 3:55.
(Jesus was resurrected, rather than the OT sacrifice for purification from sin, that, when the ashes were all used up, they had to be replaced by the ashes of another perfect heifer).

--- A footnote in the Pickthall translation: --- Maulana says that verses 72-73 refer to the Martyrdom of Jesus Christ.
Here I want to give some of the commentary on verses 72 and 73 by Maulana Muhammad Ali; from his website: http://www.muslim.or...quran/quran.htm

(Quote): When we compare the incidents narrated here in 2:63-71 with the same incidents as narrated in Surah 4:153�157, where, after enumerating almost all the incidents narrated here, --- (their disobedience, their breaking of the Covenant, and their breaking of the Sabbath), --- the Qur�an goes on to accuse the Jews in the following words: �And for their saying: We have killed the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, the messenger of Allah, and they killed him not, nor did they cause his death on the cross, but he was made to appear to them as such. And certainly those who differ therein are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge about it, but only follow a conjecture� (4:157).
The part quoted answers exactly to verses 72 and 73, only that the name is omitted. This comparison makes it clear that it is the apparent killing of Jesus that is referred to here.

The act of murder was not completed in the case of Jesus, as the Gospels show, for his legs were not broken, as in the case of the thieves. The meaning of the
sentence is therefore according to the signification of ˙arb that we adopt: strike him with partial death, or liken his condition to that of the partially dead man; and thus he was made to appear as a dead man, as stated in 4:157. There is no other case of a murder or an attempted murder in Jewish history of which the whole nation could be said to have been guilty, and which might answer to the description of these two verses.

(In his footnotes) --- He explained that the words صَلَبُوهُ مَا in Qur'an 4:157, do not negate Jesus' PBUH, being nailed to a cross; they only negate his having expired on the cross as a result of being nailed to it. He also explains that Prophet Jesus, PBUH, "died a natural death" as is plainly stated in Surah 5:
117 I did not say to them aught save what Thou didst enjoin me with: Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord, and I was a witness so long as I was among them, but when Thou didst cause me to die, Thou wert the watcher over them, and thou art witness of all things. --- Shakir�s translation. --- End of quote.
(I will conclude this next)


Placid

more of this 'something else'

I share my thoughts not as blasphemy but because it is asked, and because by sharing my views you may come to understand me, if that is what you seek, as I am also able to see and understand by your speaking, why you do not believe in Jesus.  And it is in understanding one another that we may find peace with one another.  Understanding is key.

My difficulties with Muhammad;
- Muhammad's message is a carnal message.  It appeals to the selfish nature promising fleshly things as reward.
so 1.)  It's carnal rather than spiritual in nature
     2.)  It appeals to serving of self, rather than selflessness
and, 3.)  for these reasons I don't trust where his word comes from.

God is Spirit, not flesh
God's kingdom is spirit, not flesh

'all scripture is useful for instruction' (2 Timothy)
The problem with Muhammad is that I don't trust where he got his scriptures from.

- You are taught to say, 5 times a day, how wonderful you[muslims] are, and how terrible Jews and Christians are.
This to me is the same as brainwashing, instilling and constantly reinforcing a prejudice against people, and an inflated pride in self.
God would not teach pride, but the devil would certainly use this tool.
These are the problems I have with what Muhammad and his word teaches.
Salaam,
CH


Edited by Caringheart - 08 December 2012 at 1:33pm