Watch This, Please?

A debate between Dr. Bart Ehrman and Dr. Craig Evans with the title "Does the New Testament misquote Jesus?".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7gmgdk9qG8&feature=related

Assalamu alaikum.

I watched the video and then went to bed. I am delighted and I have to thank you Abu Loren for drawing our attention although very few and probably insignificant (total number of forum members 20,030) to steer away the destructive course the world is taking. What else one wants to be convinced is certainly in the roots of one's level of education. I like what Muhammad told Abu Jahl (father of the ignorant) known as Abu Hakm (the father of wisdom before the beginning of revelation) that it is impossible for him not to understand the Qur'an. Prof. Ehrman emphasized on witness like the Ka'ba, the foot of Abraham, the spring well of zamzam, the mountains of safa and marwa and all the edifices in Makka (their ma'ahid and ma'hud). It was a very beautiful presentation. I will point this fact to people like nospam001, Ronn Webb, partially Caringheart etc what we should avoid:-

وان كلام المرء فى غير كنهه     لكالنبل تهوى ليس فيها نصالها       

This poetry is drawing our attention not to be making wild aimless and baseless statements that leads to no where.
Professor Ehrman although an Atheist should now listen to what Muhammad said about the New Testament. The debate Muhammad Rasulullah had with those who called themselves 'Christians'  is on a different level. It was on that important question of the continuity of the Message that began with the covenant of Noah and Abraham- that is on the nature of Essence and Form - there is only one Supreme Being called Allah translated- G-d, YWMH, Jehovah, Iloh, etc. This morning I came across these verses in the fajr prayer 19:88-96, 'And they say: "The Most Gracious (Allah) has begotten a son (or offspring or children- Uzair according to the Jews, Jesus son of Maryam according to those who called themselves Christians, daughters and angels according to Arabs) Indeed you have brought a terrible thing. Whereby the heavens are almost torn, and the earth is split asunder, and the mountains fall in ruins, that they ascribe a son to the Most Gracious. But it is not possible for (the Majesty of) the Most Gracious (Allah) that He should beget a son. There is none in the heavens and the earth but comes unto the Most Gracious (Allah) as a slave. Verily, He knows each of them, and has counted them a full counting. And everyone of them will come to Him alone on the Day of Resurrection. Verily, those who believe and work deeds of righteousness, the Most Gracious will bestow love for them." The last verse is significant for that is what we are looking for. It cannot be achieved without obeying Allah. Muhammad's teaching is on all and sundry: to follow the command Allah sent to them through their Messenger.
In one of such discourses, Muhammad Rasulullah asked the Banu al-Harith b. Ka'b pagan deputations who came to him from Najran how they used to conquer those they fought in the pagan period. They said that they never conquered anyone. 'Nay, but you did conquer those who fought you,' he said. They replied, 'We used to conquer those we fought because we were united and had no dissentients, and never began an injustice,' he said, 'You are right,'. The whole life history of Muhammad is nothing other than guidance and how to prosper and live in peace. Why should he ask them only this question? Is it a lesson to us?
A Rabbi has told me that indeed the Jews are looking for and inviting all to live in peace with them. This is embedded in the life history of the Jewsih prophets- from Moses to Zachariah. This period is similar to what happened in Madina between 623-632 AC. The world  is a witness to this. Now, if Muhammad demands a guidance that is superior to what is in Torah and the Qur'an for him to follow and no one ever produced that, what is the rational and justification of what we are saying about the Books of Allah? Now, if the majority of the professors of Theology all over the world including Ehrman and Craig believe that the New Testament is distorted, is its distortion responsible for the hardships we are experiencing today? The principal distortion is only on the nature of Jesus that he cannot be the son of the God of Abraham. Other distortions are not significant for they do not address the issue of peaceful coexistence. What is the place of the miracles of healing today? What we need is what he emphasized- live in peace with your neighbor, help and protect him. But do we have such details from his life history?   
I believe that we do not have the will and determination to live in peace. We know the truth but turn away from it.

Friendship.

Caringheart wrote: Thoughts as I was watching: 1.� I am reading the four Gospels and have not noticed significant differences. 2.� Does any of this matter? 3.� Why was the answer of Craig Evans�cut off and that significant portion missing? 4.� Bart Ehrman is a better presenter but that does not make him right. 5.� I agree with Evans, it was�the Trinity doctrine which�gave rise to the variant in the Gospel account... not the other way around.� Had the perception not existed there would have been no need to write it in.� It was considered an�important enough part of the perception of Jesus�to present it in a clear fashion. 6.� Has anyone ever taught with the wisdom of Jesus?��Do we say, can we possibly believe, this comes from humans?� Can we deny the superior wisdom of Jesus?� For me, these are the questions to address if you want to address the authenticity of the Gospels.� It is about the�uniqueness of the teaching that is in the Gospels.� The uniqueness of Jesus. 7.� What matters is that it all comes together as a good teaching, beneficial to humanity.� Nowhere does the message contradict itself as regards any good thing for us as humans and our treatment of one another.� This has to be the working of a supreme being... i.e., God... Creator. 8.� Why is another portion cut out... where Ehrman is speaking, and we�pick up�halfway into what Evans is saying? 9.� I agree with Evans... it is foolishness to act as though the church made up the Gospels "as if there were no eyewitnesses present to check such fabrication." 10.� Ehrman addresses the issue of Paul quite succinctly and clearly, putting that matter to rest. 11.� "100's of thousands of mistakes"? 12.� Fallacy in logic... that�if God had not preserved the Gospels, then He had not inspired them.� The one does not preclude the other.� The Gospels were given, by whatever means,�to fallible humans to preserve, not to�divine, infallible, beings. 13.� However they may differ, they do not differ in their message, so the differences prove nothing... are insignificant. � In conclusion: "In their wisdom they become fools."�� It is sad that 'scholars'�are leading us away from God, but it was foretold. � My final thought: Ehrman is deceived and blinded and destined for hell... leading people away from the belief and teaching of God and substituting a belief and teaching of man.

1) You have to read the four gospels horizontally as explained by Dr. Ehrman. Secondly, your mind is closed as you have made up your mind that the Bible is the inerrant word of God. You need to open your heart, mind and soul to SEE.

2) All of it matters as the salvation of ALL Christians from the earliest times depend on the gospels. It has falsely labelled the Messiah Jesus (pbuh) as the son on god and people are worshipping him instead of the One True God who created the heavens and the earth.

3) No idea, probably a glitch in the video.

4) You are a sour person, you always turn things around.

5) You would agree with Dr. Evans because he reprensents what you believe.

6) Sahih International

And We did certainly give Moses the Torah and followed up after him with messengers. And We gave Jesus, the son of Mary, clear proofs and supported him with the Pure Spirit. But is it [not] that every time a messenger came to you, [O Children of Israel], with what your souls did not desire, you were arrogant? And a party [of messengers] you denied and another party you killed.

The Archangel Gabriel was always with Prophet Jesus (pbuh) just like he was with Prophet Muhammed (pbuh).

7) It definately is the working of a God, the Supreme Being, the Creator.

8) Techincal glitch?

9) You would agree with Dr. Evans on every point because both of you are on the same page.

10) No comment.

11) Indeed.

12) God only promised mankind that He will protect the Holy Qur'an. All of the previous revelations had to be corrupted so the Final and uncorrupted Revelation can be given.

13) The message is the wrong message. Jesus (pbuh) is not the son of god nor is he a part of the Trinty.

Scholars are leading the way in bringing the TRUTH to the people. Until very recently, people were not allowed to delve into the Bible, if they did they were severely punished, so therefore the REAL TRUTH was hidden from the people.

Greetings Friendship,

I wonder if you, or Abu Loren, listened to what Evans had to say, as I listened to what Ehrman had to say.
Ehrman may be on point, but he misses the mark.

Muhammad brought one distorted teaching of Christianity.  But you of course believe God spoke to Muhammad through the angel Gabriel, so you will disregard this.

All religions take on aspects of the culture in which they find themselves, therefore we must look for the one core teaching that is universal to the religion.  Do you know the universal core teaching that binds all Christianity?  And what is the universal core teaching that binds all Islam?

I was already planning to share this with you, which I wrote this morning.  I was thinking about how I feel it is wonderful that you are getting to know so much about you Jewish brethren.
Is it possible that all religion has something to offer one another?  It is a Godless world that we need to be concerned about.  Doesn't this in-fighting only serve to lead us all away from God?  Isn't that what the devil has in mind... to eradicate God from our hearts, from our minds, from our lives?

All religions derive a little from one another - they are all God-related.  God seeking - seeking for purpose to life.

Salaam,
Caringheart


Edited by Caringheart - 25 October 2012 at 7:27pm