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Who are We ? (Revisited)

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Matt Browne View Drop Down
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    Posted: 09 October 2012 at 3:35am
I think the following general message can give us a clue about what's wrong with the thinking of many moderate Muslims, who indeed want peace yet their approach isn't working. I found this on Islamicity posted very recently:

"It is imperative to refrain from linking any faith or community to criminals."

Guidelines like this make matters worse. I'll give you an example.

"Hitler and Goebbels and Himmler and Eichmann were not really Germans. In fact they were not really human beings. They were beasts. Only beasts are capable of ordering the murder of millions of Jews, homosexuals, communists and mentally ill people."

Well, that's a delusion. Hitlers and all the others were indeed Germans. They committed crimes in the name of German nationalism. And they were not elephants or lions. They were human beings. So we can conclude that there are indeed human beings capable of committing heinous crimes. How can we deal with this? Like this: Stop them, arrest them, try them, punish them. And create a different kind of Germany. And this was what happened. The country was almost completely destroyed. Today it is the forth richest country in the world and a country who treats other countries with respect. Are there still Nazis? Yes, there are a few neo-Nazis. Are they Germans? Yes, they are German citizens. It's a shame. They are a disgrace. But it's the truth. Every now and then neo-Nazis commit crimes and when this happens we try to catch them and very often there are thousands of German demonstrators taking to the streets speaking out against neo-Nazism.

In the past there were Christians who killed people in the name of Christianity. Giordano Bruno is a famous example. We have to link Christianity to crimes. Because that was reality. Christianity did change over the centuries.

Osama bin Laden, Mullah Omar and all the others are linked to the faith of Islam. They don't represent the majority of Muslims, but they commit crimes in the name of Islam. The same goes for the angry young men who became violent when protesting against a dumb video. They are Muslims. Again, a minority. But unlike the frequent anti-Nazism demonstrations we see all the time, there are more than a billion Muslims who never demonstrate against violent Muslims. They rather take the simple approach. These extremists are not really Muslims, so why bother. The real Muslims are perfect. The real Islam is perfect (and of course superior to Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism and so forth).

It is imperative to refrain from linking Islam to criminals. No need for demonstrations. No need to speak up. No need to leave the comfort zone. Really?

I think some members here on Islamicity have realized that something has to change. We need a new official interpretation of the Quran and the Hadith. We need an Islam that can evolve. Slavery and violence were the norm in 600 CE. But killing apostates and blasphemers cannot be the norm in 2012 CE. Using words like disbelievers was the norm in the past. But it should no longer be the norm today.

The "Who are We" question is encouraging. Thank you for asking it.



Edited by Matt Browne - 09 October 2012 at 3:49am
A religion that's intolerant of other religions can't be the world's best religion --Abdel Samad
Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people--Eleanor Roosevelt
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m.sumair View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote m.sumair Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 October 2012 at 7:03am
As-salaam Alaikum,
Originally posted by Hakeema Hakeema wrote:

What do you want Muslims to say M.Sumair?

Hakeema


I dunno, i mean share anything you want, what you want to say... The reason why I share this because I was a bit disturbed on recent happenings, continuous defaming of Islam, and we Muslims are almost helpless about handling such situations and those who decided to act were either went rogue or their actions were to little effect.


We Muslims have better and brighter history. The Companions of Prophet (May Allah be please with them all) are the best examples for us, for society..But we Muslims are in quite jeopardy, we are having hard time coping with are brighter history.

So Hakeema, am I able to make myself understandable, or am I still unclear to you. :)
By-the-way Have you read the complete thread.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hakeema Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 October 2012 at 7:53am
Originally posted by m.sumair m.sumair wrote:

[IMG]smileys/smiley1.gif" align="middle" /> My original theme of starting this thread was to share my views about our ignorance and have an input from my Muslims bros. and sis., they could have agree, disagree share/discuss their views (Ofcourse anyone can comment, as it is open forum [IMG]smileys/smiley1.gif" align="middle" />).

But it seems I was not able to communicate my thoughts properly and so was not able to achieve desired objective....
Anyways I did had pretty good discussion with these two fellows here and it was rationally objective.
Greetings [IMG]smileys/smiley1.gif" align="middle" />


As-Salaam Alaikum,

What do you want Muslims to say M.Sumair?

Hakeema


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote m.sumair Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 October 2012 at 5:09am
My original theme of starting this thread was to share my views about our ignorance and have an input from my Muslims bros. and sis., they could have agree, disagree share/discuss their views (Ofcourse anyone can comment, as it is open forum ).

But it seems I was not able to communicate my thoughts properly and so was not able to achieve desired objective....
Anyways I did had pretty good discussion with these two fellows here and it was rationally objective.
Greetings
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote m.sumair Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 October 2012 at 4:46am
Originally posted by Ron Webb Ron Webb wrote:

[/QUOTE]


WOW!..hardcore, true but hardcore. On our side They do use Religious notions to ignite people feelings, manipulate them the way they want. They are able to do such things because most of us are ignorant of true religious practices and among us those who are learned, have less to say or do in such disturbing matters.

So here is my say: (the real reason to start the thread)

-Those People protesting at US Embassy were mostly ignorant(of the whole situation, and the Islamic values to handle this situation),these people are from among us.

-Than there were those People that uses the Religious name for their own motives and propaganda, manipulate ignorant people and be able to fulfill their mean motives. These are culprits.

Now my point is we (the learned ones) should propagate the true values of Islam, not just outside but within the Muslim community. This what we Really need to do, we should rectify the ignorance from our people. To be honest, most of these people don't really know what they are doing, They think that this is the right thing to do. So we have to beat the ignorance out of people. Once they are able to make better judgment (enlight of Islam) than they can't be manipulated by those culprits and they (and their acts) will be out casted.

But right now we have lot of work to do....No wonder that these culprits have been assassinating the Learned Personals since about a decade now. They don't want people to get the true teachings of Islam, they want us to stay ignorant.Ignorance is the worst disease of all.
     

Edited by m.sumair - 04 October 2012 at 4:52am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote m.sumair Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 October 2012 at 4:03am
Originally posted by Caringheart Caringheart wrote:

have always had a need to defend themselves against aggressors


True..But the "need" to defend, tends to get more Aggressive when there is a notion that says Pre-emptive Strikes. It poses constant threat, and the "need" to defend keeps on growing even more...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ron Webb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 October 2012 at 4:14pm

Originally posted by m.sumair m.sumair wrote:

I sure hope you know what you are saying, because if war is a BIG Business,
than in order to remain in profit they must do what it takes to grow the business... and war brings destruction and chaos to the lives of many.
....Keep increasing the tension and the business will grow further and further.

That is exactly what I am saying.  It's the same on both sides of the divide: those in power maintain that power by fomenting fear and hatred of the Other.  On our side, power is mostly measured in money, while on yours, it is mostly religious; but otherwise the process is the same.

Addeenul �Aql � Religion is intellect.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Caringheart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 October 2012 at 3:23pm
Originally posted by m.sumair m.sumair wrote:


Lately I saw a movie Sherlock Holmes- A Game of Shadows,
the story theme was soo true...


I am putting that in my Netflix queue to watch.  Smile
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