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What would this trailer bring to the West? - Event Date: 13 September 2012
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Ron Webb View Drop Down
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    Posted: 17 September 2012 at 4:24pm

Originally posted by honeto honeto wrote:

Ron, there is nothing wrong with protesting an insult. If you were walking with your mother in a mall, and some guy insulted her, would you do anything?

Sure I would.  I'd go attack an embassy.  Or if he's a Muslim, maybe I'd vandalize a mosque.  Disapprove

Quote So the reaction is natural and justified but what you do has to be inline with your beliefs, and of course those people have been wrong when killing innocent people and destroying property.

They are wrong to involve innocent people at all.  And they are wrong to participate in a demonstration that they ought to know would probably turn violent.  At the very least, they are wrong to remain on the scene once the violence starts.

Quote Can you point out to me any Hadith that you claim these people used to justify their actions for what they did?

I don't know, and I don't particularly care; but clearly they think it is justified, and that's what matters.
Addeenul �Aql � Religion is intellect.
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Ron Webb View Drop Down
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Points: 2467 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ron Webb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 September 2012 at 4:19pm

Originally posted by truthnowcome truthnowcome wrote:


Number Of Iraqis Slaughtered In US War And Occupation Of Iraq "1,455,590"
Number of U.S. Military Personnel Sacrificed (Officially acknowledged) In U.S. War And Occupation Of Iraq 4,801
Number Of International Occupation Force Troops Slaughtered In Afghanistan: 3,183
Cost of War in Iraq & Afghanistan?$1,373,424,753,393

I was opposed to the wars in Iraq and Aghanistan too, but what do they have to do with this video?
Addeenul �Aql � Religion is intellect.
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honeto View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Ron Webb Ron Webb wrote:

Originally posted by Friendship Friendship wrote:

Then forgive me. I am sure I have expressed my views that mankind is a Muslim for the Arabic word means one who submits to the Supreme Being. Probably if I call you a Muslim you will deny that. t is not an offense for the forum addresses those with faith.


To call me a Muslim would be to associate me with the mobs of rioters that are currently rampaging in cities everywhere.� Unless you can agree that they are not true Muslims and do not represent Islam, then yes, at this moment I would regard it as an offense to be called a Muslim.


Quote Then how are you going to change their attitude if you do not know what is expected from them so as to correct them by non-violent force or otherwise? Therefore the hadith of Muhammad that you fight them with the tongue is indeed what is to be done by all.


The question is not how I am going to change their attitude.� The question is how are you going to change their attitude?� They won't listen to me, but they might listen to you.� If you think the hadith that can help you with this, then go ahead and use them; but there are also plenty of hadith and sunnah that they can use to justify their hatred and violence, as I'm sure you know.



Ron, there is nothing wrong with protesting an insult. If you were walking with your mother in a mall, and some guy insulted her, would you do anything?
So the reaction is natural and justified but what you do has to be inline with your beliefs, and of course those people have been wrong when killing innocent people and destroying property.
Can you point out to me any Hadith that you claim these people used to justify their actions for what they did?

Islam teaches justice and did so long before it came in practice here in the West, so do not associate any acts that happens "over there" as patent Islamic. And may I kindly suggest you grow out of your preconceived untrue ideas about Islam to know its true beauty and reality.
Hasan


Edited by honeto - 17 September 2012 at 2:12pm
The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62
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honeto View Drop Down
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Points: 2487 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote honeto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 September 2012 at 1:52pm
Ron,
I did not expect your knowledge level to be this low when it comes to the reasons and who really is causing this warfare and systematic killings and destruction around the world in general and in the Islamic world in particular.
No doubt that Muslims are far from practicing their belief as they should, and that being one of the reasons for their present condition. But if you are unaware of the real causes behind what is going on "over there" please stay with that thinking of yours since exposing yourself to reality sometimes is hard on sincere hearts.
Hasan


Edited by honeto - 17 September 2012 at 1:59pm
The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62
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truthnowcome View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Ron Webb Ron Webb wrote:

Still not a word against the thousands (perhaps millions!) of fanatical Muslims destroying buildings and murdering their innocent occupants in cities throughout North Africa and the Middle East, eh? Disapprove Why not direct your message of "peace" to them?

<>

Number Of Iraqis Slaughtered In US War And Occupation Of Iraq "1,455,590"

Number of U.S. Military Personnel Sacrificed (Officially acknowledged) In U.S. War And Occupation Of Iraq 4,801

Number Of International Occupation Force Troops Slaughtered In Afghanistan: 3,183

Cost of War in Iraq & Afghanistan
$1,373,424,753,393

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/

These people are so narrow-minded if you protest for your religious believe and burn up flags and a couple of people dies is a fanatical behavior, but if you kill millions of people using drones and other means, and dropping bombs on them, and destroy their country infrastructure and occupied their land to not only steal their wealth but to establish their type of religion (fundamental capitalism) it is not fanatic, it is not even worth mentioning.

Dount you think when kill so many Muslims and destroyed their country and them now attacking their system of governance to enforce your systems (fundamental capitalism) of governance would they not react with what ever means the have to get the world attention? Those people know that it is the embassy is the spy base for them.

  Br. zainool
LET'S SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT ONCE AND FOR ALL...NO MORE LIES!
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Ron Webb View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Friendship Friendship wrote:

But how can we achieve pluralism when we do not know how one faith dovetails into the other. How can we achieve pluralism when one says the Torah is not the Bible and vice-versa and the Qur'an is not a recitation coined from the previous scriptures? How can we have pluralism when 6 billion people are not allowed to touch and read the Qur'an? How can we have pluralism when the despots are those supported with weapons to fight those who want to educate the world for peaceful co-existence?

We don't need to know "how one faith dovetails into the other".  You seem to think that pluralism requires or involves some kind of consensus or consolidation of faiths.  It does not.  Pluralism is simply the recognition and acceptance of the diversity of faiths.  There is no need to reconcile them.

I am a humanist; my neighbour is a Christian.  He probably thinks I am doomed to an eternity in Hell, but that's my problem.  I think he is wasting his life serving an imaginary god, but that's his problem.  In the meantime, we can still be good neighbours, and maybe even good friends.  At the very least, we can still wish each other well in our separate journeys through this life.  That is pluralism.

What do you mean by "6 billion people are not allowed to touch and read the Qur'an"?  I don't know of any country where the Quran is censored or not allowed.

Quote I am not unaware of the impossibility from the present status quo. But the moment the People of the Book understand the difference between 'Peace" and 'Facing the Ka'ba' and that 'Peace' does not necessarily imply facing the Ka'ba, that is when we can live in harmony.

The People of the Book already understand the difference.  They do not think that peace implies facing the Kaaba (in prayer).  So what do you mean?

Quote
Quote The real geo-political fault line of our times is not Left versus Right or even West versus East, but freedom versus fundamentalism.
The Telegraph is theoretical and not practical. I AM AN INSIDER AND I AM ASSURING YOU THAT THERE IS NO FREEDOM OF ACTION IN THE MUSLIM UMMA.

Yes I know, and so does the writer in The Telegraph.  That is the point.  The struggle between freedom and fundamentalism is internal to each culture.  It exists both in the Muslim Ummah (where fundamentalism seems to have the upper hand), and in the Western world (where freedom is relatively strong but Christian fundamentalism is on the rise).  However, the fundamentalists in both societies have the common goal of provoking confrontation between the religions, as in this case.

I think (and hope) that you're being too pessimistic when you say that the forces of fundamentalism cannot be displaced.  We in the West thought that was what the "Arab Spring" was all about.  Perhaps that was wishful thinking, but I still believe that freedom and democracy are inevitable in the long run.  It may just take longer than we would like.
Addeenul �Aql � Religion is intellect.
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Friendship View Drop Down
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Assalamau alaika Caringheart.

Wishing you nice holiday.

Friendship
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Caringheart View Drop Down
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Greetings Friendship,
Lately I am having a great deal of trouble understanding what you are saying.

But as regards this
"Every good from Muhammad is a lie!"

My answer is No, every good thing from Muhammad came from the Judeo-Christian community.
I am beginning to see and understand that the confusion and the divide in Islam has to do with whether one belongs to a people who were introduced to Muhammad in his early years, or whether one learned and became Muslim during his later teachings.

I hope to have more to share later.  I need to go to another computer.
Salaam,
Caringheart
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