THE MESSAGE OF THE MESSENGERS

Caringheart wrote: Hasan,Because people keep asking, I try to explain but they must be enlightened by the Holy spirit to receive the message, and I do not control that.salaamWho is it that (really) twists the words of others?I have never done this with anything you have had to say.'let those with eyes to see, see'__________________________�If you keep to my teaching 32 Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.� - <font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">the words of Jesus[note:� if you haven't noticed TNC and I are ok with each other.� That is called respect.� He has his belief and I accept that.� I have mine.� I hope he accepts that.� Not being able to explain it to one another does not diminish the belief of either one of us.]

Caringheart,
if you do not know how to explain that the earth is round, why would you try to teach it to others?
If you do not know how to explain Trinity, why would you become a stooge in front of others by trying to explain and convince them.
You say Jesus is God and equal to God. We have shown you he is not. Instead he has a God, even according to your own book. Do you not trust your own book?
John 20:17 "...Go instead to my brothers and tell them, �I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.�� Jesus has a God.
Why are you so scared to set yourself free by proclaiming that truth, are you scared of an outcast in your own community, is that all? It will be right to know, accept and love Jesus (pbuh) for what he was, as the above verse states and not for what he was not.
Quran 19:35 Such was Jesus the son of Mary a statement of truth about which they vainly dispute.
And if you cannot know or explain Trinity, then you should keep it to yourself if not abonden it, so you don't decieve others because if you do, not only your own but their sins will be on you!
Hasan



Edited by honeto - 01 November 2012 at 2:49pm

Caringheart wrote: Peace to you too TNC,I told you at the outset that I have never been able to explain the Trinity to any Muslim, and that is ok.� I've shared with you what I could.� I see no point in argument.I know, what I know, what I know,for it is revealed through Jesus,and I know that you do not accept it, and I accept that.Did you skip over the notes I left at the bottom of my post?I would be interested in your reply to that, and your explanation.Caringheart

Caringheart,
why would one (you) then preach something you are unable to even explain, let alone to understand?
You can only explain something you know and understand.
Don't you know what you believe? or you just do it because you saw others do it jsut because they saw others do it and so on.
TNC has laid out a pretty clear evidence in front of you from your own scripture. He did a lot of hard work, and may God Almihghty reward him for that, to show you something that makes sense and showed you the truth of the matter. I hope you quit using excuses or changing subjects rather benefit from truth revealed to you. Do not trun your back to the truth. Remember it is only the truth that will truly give you direction, God loves truth only.
Hasan

Peace my friend.

Concerning your note, I never heard of any such thing, but of the rock there are reports of Jinn speak true images (Idol). We were told the children of Israel worship the calf because it MOO!

 tnc

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Now the answer to your contention:

Jesus said unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and said unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master. Jesus said unto her, Touch me not, for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and my God, and your God. ( John 20:16-17 KJV)

 Remember he told the disciples:

�A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, ye shall see me, because I go to the Father.� (John 16:16)

 And Christians understand it to mean that, he will die and resurrect; But the suppose Jesus is telling Mary he did not go to the father (died) as yet but go and tell them he did, �I ascend � all ready died. 

 

But the Devil is quick to draw the vial over your eyes in changing �I ascend� to �I will go�, I am returning. See other translations and compare it with the KJV. That is wher you got your idea from:

Caringheart wrote: Greetings TNC, I tried to answer this, but perhaps I did not do so clearly. The verse that you are quoting was from when Jesus was with his Apostle's after He had been resurrected.  He had gone. Do I even find it confusing?  Yes.  But I do not expect to understand all that is God.  Jesus had gone, and returned, that is all that I know.  The Apostle's (who were many) testified to His return, and the events of His return, and of His ascending.

Allah (S) said:

For of a surety they killed him not. (Q.4:157)

Now, please don�t tell me that he was going up in the sky because he was speaking to Mary on the earth and he said, �Say unto them, I ascend unto my Father.� He was just there in front of her.  

 Paul testified that Jesus (S) did not die:

Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him (God Almighty) that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared. (Hebrews 5:7)

 To what extend he prayed? He said:

��My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death... And he went a little farther, and fell on his face. And prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou will.� (Matt.26:28-29)

  Also in Luke22:44

�And being in agony, he prayed more earnestly; and his sweet was, as it were, great drop of blood falling to the ground.� Luke22:44

And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him. (Luke 22:43)

The angel assured him that God Almighty has answered his prayers:

The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much. (James 5:16)

You see that! Paul knew, that why he confessed:

�Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him (God Almighty) that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared. (Hebrews 5:7)

He knew the truth, he confesses that he lied:

He said: �If the truth of God is more abundant in my lies why should I call a sinner?�

In other words, if he tells some lies to bring people to God he should no call a sinner.

  Even some of the Jews knew that he didn�t died, but what they did not know is that, he was the suppose Jesus the gardener. Read for yourself:

62�Now the next day� the chief priest and Pharisees came together unto Pilate, 63Saying, Sir, we remember that that deceiver said, while he was yet alive, After three days I will rise again.

64Command therefore that the sepulchre be made sure until the third day, lest his disciples come by night, and steal him away, and say unto the people, He is risen from the dead: So the LAST ERROR SHALL BE WORSE THAN THE FIRST (Matt.27:62-64�

  They are talking about FIRST ERROR and LAST ERROR. What is the first error? They knew that they didn�t kill the suppose Jesus.

  Jesus, interestingly, told the Pharisees too:

�go and learn what this means: 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice� [Matthew 9:13].

 We all agree that Jesus Christ (S) was a righteous and a pious man and the O.T. says that the wicked will take his place: �In the work of his own hands the wicked is snared" [Psalm 9:16],

 

"The wicked is a ransom for the righteous, And the treacherous is in the place of the upright� [Proverbs 21:18],

 

and "The righteous is delivered from trouble, But the wicked takes his place" [Proverbs 11:8].

Who say that? The God of theof the Jews!

  Last point, what is a resurrected body? Let Jesus tells us:

��For they are equal unto the angels,� Luke 20:27-27

 Meaning, that they will be Angelised, they will be Spiritualized, they will be Spirit! As to regards the suppose Jesus:

�Behold my hand and feet, that it is I myself: handle me and see: for a SPIRIT has no flesh and bone, as you see me have. (Luke 24:39-40)

If Christ be not risen from the dead, then our preaching is vain, and your faith is also vain. (I Corinthians15:14) <>

So your Idea of �gone to the father and return� has no weight. Again, If the disciples received the Holy Spirit before Jesus (S) left then why he laid the �condition� that �he first have to go to the Father then the Comforter will come�? The answer is, you don�t know it is a mystery for you.

tnc

Edited by truthnowcome - 26 October 2012 at 8:22pm