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The hate feeling manifestation

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Ron Webb View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ron Webb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: The hate feeling manifestation
    Posted: 27 August 2012 at 4:07pm

Well, this is a refreshing development:

Quote Pakistan's conservative mullahs question blasphemy law

ISLAMABAD � A group of Islamic leaders in Pakistan lent strong support Monday to a mentally disabled Christian girl accused of blasphemy in an unprecedented public move that was the first denunciation by hard-line mullahs of the country's controversial blasphemy law.

The All Pakistan Ulema Council, an umbrella group of Muslim clerics and scholars that includes representatives from fundamentalist groups, joined hands with the Pakistan Interfaith League - which includes Christians, Sikhs and practitioners of other religions - to call for understanding for the girl, who's been identified only as Rimsha. They also demanded that those making false allegations of blasphemy be punished.

Tahir Ashrafi, the chairman of the Ulema Council, warned that it was the "law of the jungle" when angry mobs routinely pressured police to file blasphemy charges, as happened in the case of Rimsha, who her family says is 11 years old and suffering from Down syndrome.Rimsha was charged earlier this month with desecrating the Quran.

...
"We see Rimsha as a test case for Pakistan's Muslims, Pakistan's minorities and for the government," Ashrafi told a news conference in Islamabad. "We don't want to see injustice done with anyone. We will work to end this climate of fear. The accusers should be proceeded against with full force, so that no one would dare make spurious allegations."

...
"This is the first time in the history of Pakistan that Muslim community and scholars have stood up for non-Muslims," said Sajid Ishaq, the chairman of the Pakistan Interfaith League. "We are together, demanding justice, demanding an unbiased investigation."

http://www.bellinghamherald.com/2012/08/27/2664353/pakistans-conservative-mullahs.html#storylink=cpy

My only question is, where were these guys when Salmaan Taseer was murdered?

Addeenul �Aql � Religion is intellect.
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nothing View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nothing Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 August 2012 at 3:11pm
Originally posted by Ron Webb Ron Webb wrote:

Not necessarily.  Wikipedia knows all Wink, but nobody knows the reason why Allah ordered the suras as He did:
 
Suras in the Quran are not arranged in the chronological order of revelation. Amin Ahsan Islahi says that the order of revelation has no significance for the present times, and the present arrangement is divinely ordained.


I think I do. To me this method is one of few ways to avoid tampering. I found few of them and I have placed one in the below website. I was just too lazy to continue when it comes to count the letters. But still I found quite few as well where the letters also used to protect the book.

Maybe you have seen this or the kind like one, but this is definitely my works.

http://www.freewebs.com/nothing-ness/numbersinquran.htm


Edited by nothing - 26 August 2012 at 3:12pm
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Ron Webb View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ron Webb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 August 2012 at 6:05pm
Originally posted by Caringheart Caringheart wrote:

How can this be correct when the surah's are arranged according to length... not in the order in which they were revealed?
Not necessarily.  Wikipedia knows all Wink, but nobody knows the reason why Allah ordered the suras as He did:
 
Suras in the Quran are not arranged in the chronological order of revelation. Amin Ahsan Islahi says that the order of revelation has no significance for the present times, and the present arrangement is divinely ordained.
Addeenul �Aql � Religion is intellect.
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Caringheart View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Caringheart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 August 2012 at 4:02pm
How can this be correct when the surah's are arranged according to length... not in the order in which they were revealed?

I get your point...
IF, Islam can evolve... that is the big question to be determined and being addressed.
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Ron Webb View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ron Webb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 August 2012 at 8:20am

"Explaining the context of this verse, Quranic Scholars (Muhammad Asad and Muhammad Ali) explain that the permission to fight and kill is being given regarding specific tribes already at war with the Muslims who have breached their peace agreements and have attacked the Muslims first."
(Read more at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At-Tawba_5.)

I have the Yusuf Ali translation, which includes a more detailed commentary.  Ali explains that this Sura is a logical extension of the previous one (Sura 8).  In fact, Muhammad directed that it was to "follow" Sura 8, and whether he meant that it formed part of that Sura or whether it forms a separate Sura was not completely clear.

In any case, they are now generally regarded as separate Suras; but Ali maintains that Sura 9 must be read in the context of Sura 8.  Sura 8 deals (among other things) with the formation of alliances and treaties with other nations.  Sura 9 therefore explains what is to be done when those alliances break down and the other nations refuse to abide by them.

Whatever.  This is not my religion, so "I have no dog in this race", as the saying goes.  What I don't understand is why so many non-Muslims and people like Sultan insist on the more extreme interpretation of such passages when there are plenty of credible Muslim scholars who offer a more benign explanation.  Like I said, whose side are they on?  They should be arguing against the extremists, shouldn't they?

It's not like we (non-Muslims) can say that one interpretation or the other is objectively "true" or that Allah intended it one way or the other, because we don't believe any of it anyway.  Why not support those scholars who are trying to make Islam compatible with modernity?

Addeenul �Aql � Religion is intellect.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Caringheart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 August 2012 at 11:22pm
Originally posted by Ron Webb Ron Webb wrote:

As I understand it, the context of Sura 9:5 is a discussion of how to deal with enemies who have already agreed to a truce, and then proceed to break that truce.  Such people cannot be trusted and there is no point in trying to negotiate or accommodate.  IMHO it's a reasonable point of view.
 
As I've said before, I can defend most of what I find in the Quran.  It is the hadith that do not belong in a modern religion.


That's not how it reads to me at all.  It is an entirely slanderous passage about how no non-muslim can be trusted and that you only have to honor your treaties with them until the holy days are over.  Then you can treat them as the scum that they are.
That's how it reads to me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ron Webb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 August 2012 at 8:18pm
As I understand it, the context of Sura 9:5 is a discussion of how to deal with enemies who have already agreed to a truce, and then proceed to break that truce.  Such people cannot be trusted and there is no point in trying to negotiate or accommodate.  IMHO it's a reasonable point of view.
 
As I've said before, I can defend most of what I find in the Quran.  It is the hadith that do not belong in a modern religion.
Addeenul �Aql � Religion is intellect.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Caringheart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 August 2012 at 7:39pm
"He was right though considering there are verses 1-5 before it, and 6-13 after it as a context. Than there are 115 verses more right after verse 13. It is irresponsible to isolate a verse to use it for attacking. But she is a psychiatrist so it must have been thought out thoroughly as the right thing to do. "
 
I have read it.  The context changes nothing.  In fact it only adds to its treachery.
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