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Interracial relationships

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Israfil View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Israfil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 November 2005 at 10:15pm

Candor As'Salaamu Alikum,

Apparently you didnt read all of my statement nor did you give it any deep thought, let me help you out. First off I was addressing the socio-ethnic problem in th Muslim community. This comes from the parental household who breed the philosophy that, "to sustain a community one must be equally 'yolked' and must desire to be with one of that community." Now in light of that and in the glorious words of the Qur'an to prefer another person based on race (and not of their good nature) contradicts Quranic philosophy.

So if I choose Jane because she is of Arabic Descent over Jamaal who is black even though Jamaal may treat me better and is much more on my intellectual plane is wrong of me. Number one I'm wrong in showing cultural favortism. Two I'm overlooking another's qualities because I desire to be with someone of my own kind regardless whether the other persons qualities superceed the others.

Cultural favortism in Islam is a plague and should be extinguished not only with the dying off of previous generations but through education. Dont get me wrong not saying here dont be proud of ones own culture, but in the decision of choosing one's decision shouldn't be based on culture its illogical to calculate any decision based on that because what it all boils down to is personality. Muhammad the prophet said no person of color is better than another person of non-color and vice versa except through piety...unfortunately candor your ending remark (asserting if I were to take your comments as deragatory) does not show true Islamic knowledge.

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Jenni View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jenni Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 November 2005 at 7:31am
Candor, you have differing shades of people even in the same country who share the same culture. My husband has a good friend who is from the same city in Pakistan and went to the same college. Yet this friend is very dark skinned so that people here in the U.S. think he is south indian. To the point when it comes to marraige in south asia many state in the ads that they want a fair skinned spouse, sometimes they expect someone more fairskinned then they are, that is absurd. They are self hating, they hate thier brown skin and want thier children to be lighter than them, so silly to me.
You cant be a good muslim if you are not decent and have a cold heart. Be a decent and kind person and care for women and children and the elderly.
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candor View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote candor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 November 2005 at 7:41am

Walai kum As'Salaam,

Quote And finally, if you still think I racially discriminate unfairly against you (and your community), and then feel free to racially discriminate against me, I don�t want anything from you (or your community) and I won�t mind.

I agree that was not well-thought out. It can be interpreted to have other meanings that I didn't intend it to have.

 

And after sorting out my feelings/views about the matter, I think my partiality is only for Western culture. That is because I believe "good nature" of a person (as is defined by Islam) is, usually, greatly determined by his/her culture.

 

I do acknowledge racial discrimination exists amongst the Muslims (although, I don't believe it exists in the form as you believe it exists). But there are other more serious problems that confront the Ummah and which require immediate political and miltary solution. It is pointless to feed a starving man if he is bleeding to death (bleeding should be stopped first).



Edited by candor
Courage is not absence of fear.
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Bigger is the gun, smaller is the brain.
Intelligence=Knowledge+Imagination.
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candor View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote candor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 November 2005 at 7:54am

Originally posted by Jenni Jenni wrote:

Candor, you have differing shades of people even in the same country who share the same culture. My husband has a good friend who is from the same city in Pakistan and went to the same college. Yet this friend is very dark skinned so that people here in the U.S. think he is south indian. To the point when it comes to marraige in south asia many state in the ads that they want a fair skinned spouse, sometimes they expect someone more fairskinned then they are, that is absurd. They are self hating, they hate thier brown skin and want thier children to be lighter than them, so silly to me.

That is probably because of the inferiority complex that developed amongst the people of the sub-continent because of 150 years of British rule.

Or perhaps, it is because fairness indicates gentleness and tenderness. People who work hard, become strong and usually develop a darker complexion. And may be because strength  evokes fear whereas tenderness makes a person trustworthy (people assume that weak people won't dare to act wrongly). But that is my theory, I am not sure.

Courage is not absence of fear.
Smoking is injurious to health.
Bigger is the gun, smaller is the brain.
Intelligence=Knowledge+Imagination.
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Israfil View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Israfil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 November 2005 at 11:03am

Candor I assume you haven't delt with racism much when you stated:

>>>But there are other more serious problems that confront the Ummah and which require immediate political and miltary solution.<<<<

Candor perhaps you'd like to go back to Hadith where Abu Jahl calls Bilal "Son of a slave woman." If you think racism is not an even more important issue now than it was 1500 years ago then perhaps your ideas on what is important and not are definitely mixed up. Racism is perhaps the second if not most single important issue that effects this Ummah. Sure you have different cultures and sure you have different cultures banning together. But as the topic implies when it comes to marrying one another that is a different story.

It is usually "I'm your friend until you marry my daughter" type thing. Such as I'm good enough to pray next to you and make you my friend but the case is different in marriage....Think about it.

Oh BTW darker complexion doesn't come from hard work it comes either genetically or through the acclimation of sunlight......... 

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Mishmish View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mishmish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 November 2005 at 10:59pm

Originally posted by candor candor wrote:

Pre-Islamic Arabs, who later converted to Islam, were unknowledgeable, but they were tough people of the desert and did mean what they said. Weak-hearted Western converts to Islam cannot be compared to them. To most of the people in the West, the concept of religion as a way of line is alien. Besides, many of them convert to Islam only for the sake of marriage.

Assalamu Alaikum:

I must take offense at this statement. Obviously you have no clue as to just how tough you have to be to revert to Islam in the West. Most Westerners who revert lose their friends, families, culture, and freedom. Everything that they knew, even the way they have lived their lives changes. They have to choose to leave all of this behind and accept an almost voluntary exile. Something that you must be very strong to do. It is much more difficult to choose this way of life than to be born into it.

I also find it offensive that you say most Westerners revert to Islam because of marriage. I have been a Muslim for 9 years, and been around Muslims from numerous countries for years before that. I can honestly say that reverts are some of the most well read, intellectually knowledgeable Muslims I have met. Most of them read everything they can and seriously study Islam before reverting. It is a life changing choice that you have to approach very seriously. Most reverts know why they have chosen Islam and why they have to follow the Quran and the teachings of the Prophet. They don't do it just because everyone else does, or because their parents make them.  

It is very rare to see a Western woman who has reverted to Islam without hijab. It is very rare to see a Western man who has reverted to Islam who does not live Islam in every aspect of his life everyday. Most of the rising scholars in Islam today are from the West, many are reverts.

I do not believe that any Muslims today can be compared to the Sahaba.

It is only with the heart that one can see clearly, what is essential is invisible to the eye. (The Little Prince)
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ummziba View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ummziba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 November 2005 at 3:58am

Assalamu alaikum,

Sister Mishmish, thank you for forming a reply to Candor's ill informed comment on "weak-hearted Western converts to Islam".  My heart was too angry at the comment to form a civil reply.  You have done so, nicely.  May Allah reward you for your patience with a matter that surely tore at your heart, as it did at mine.

As to Candor's comment that "there are other more serious problems that confront the Ummah and which require immediate political and military solution".... that may seem true, but in real life, in people's day to day striving to survive and worship Allah as best they can, it is family which forms the core concern of any human being.

Politics, world affairs, struggles between nations, economy, business....these all take a back seat to what is really important in people's everyday lives - that being the people they care the most about, spouse, children, parents, kin.

When people view someone from the "other" as not an option for marriage, how can we expect humans to get along on a grander scale?  It is the marriage of two people that forms the very soul of human existence.  When we can learn to look beyond colour, culture, language, and ethnicity in our marriages, we human beings just might finally learn to get along at all levels.  Racism is an important issue, whether between two persons or between two factions/countries/ideologies - it is at the core of many of the problems in the world today.

Peace, ummziba.

Sticks and stones may break my bones, but your words...they break my soul ~
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Mishmish View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mishmish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 November 2005 at 10:22am

Assalamu Alaikum Ummziba:

I agree with you 100%. If we take care of the smaller issues on a day to day basis, then the bigger issues become so much easier. It is difficult to focus on changing the larger scale ills of the world if you are struggling in your everyday life and Imaan. So many times I have seen Brothers who are at the Musjid constantly and are very concerned in worldly affairs while their children, the young Muslims who will be the Ummah of tomorrow, sit at home without guidance. O.K. Maybe that was a little off of the subject, but still true...

But Brothers, you talk about the injustice of the Ummah today and the prejudices within it, yet your posts reflect these very prejudices. Israfil with his notions that other cultures in Islam are against reverts, and Candor with his weak Westerners remark. Both show the very thing that they are complaining against.

I am married to a Brother from another race and culture, as are most of the reverts I know, including the Brothers. I have no problems at all with my husband's family. The few people I know that do have in-law problems would have probably have these problems no matter what race or culture they were. This happens. I also know some single Sisters who are looking for husbands and they do not care where they are from as long as they are pious, practicing Muslims who will treat them kindly.

In the end the person you marry is naseeb, and until that person comes along you must be patient and accept Allah's plan.

Salaams.

It is only with the heart that one can see clearly, what is essential is invisible to the eye. (The Little Prince)
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