Was Islam spread by the sword?

Hi Hughes,

No offence but I find your observation kinda biased.

In Muslim countries (Those countries controlled by Muslims), we find many things that are not peaceful or free

Well, who is to judge who is happy, free and peaceful? Depends how you define these terms. Are you happy? Is your country peaceful? And for Muslim countries, do you have a reference (apart from Hollywood movies)?

... no where does Jesus or any Christian say to kill another because of honor or dishonor or any belief system.

Neither does Qur'an or Prophet Muhammed (peace on him) say that. In fact prophet Muhammed (peace on him) was ridiculed and abused by many of his enemies in Mecca, but after the conquest of Mecca, rather than punish them, the prophet forgave everyone. While Jesus (peace on him) taught us to forgive and love even the enemies, Muhammed (peace on him) showed us practically.

...in Christianity we find freedom and loving even those who we disagree with.

There are peace loving Christians, who follow the teaching of Jesus (peace on him) in true essence. However you cannot deny the fact that there have been, (and are), many crazy-Christians throughout the ages who would hunt up jews, burn 'witches', attack 'heathens', enslave Africans and commit many evil in the name of Jesus (peace on him).
Similarly we have crazy Muslims on our side who are using religion to grind their own axes. But Qur'an certainly doesn't teach evil, it is a guidance towards success and eternal peace.

... it's against the law to say anything against Islam or Muhammed

We take our faith very seriously. We truly believe that Islam is the way to God, and refrain from making fun or joking about it. Not only Muhammed, we respect Jesus, Moses, Abraham, and all the prophets (peace on them) and a Muslim cannot make fun of either one of them. Even gods/goddess of other religion, we cannot make abuse, Qur'an has clearly forbidden us. However, a healthy criticism or questions on religion are always encouraged.
Compare it with western world where Jesus (peace on him) is used as a curse word, in spoofs, as derogatory character in jokes and movies, etc. If by freedom you expect to mock or make fun and hurt sentiments of someone without a valid reason (other than entertainment) then Islam doesn't give permission.

Because everyone knows that if the governmental laws dictate what people can or cannot say about Islam and Muhammed, it's not freedom we are talking about, it becomes obvious that Islam isn't about peace but control and submission

If that were in anyway true then do you think Muslims would be keen to discuss religion and Islam here? Qur'an actually advises us to hold healthy discussion and answer questions raised in best possible manner. You are free to say what you feel about Islam in a logical way. Only thing it forbids is abusing anyone, just to hurt sentiments,,, well that is wrong.

I find your knowledge about Islam is limited and you have basically stated what the usual 'norm' stereotypes is to be found in media these days. I would advise you to read the Qur'an to get first hand info into what we actually follow and believe.

Also please go through this article for the truth of ' honor killing'

Dayem wrote: Hi Hughes, No offence but I find your observation kinda biased. In Muslim countries (Those countries controlled by Muslims), we find many things that are not peaceful or free Well, who is to judge who is happy, free and peaceful? Depends how you define these terms. Are you happy? Is your country peaceful? And for Muslim countries, do you have a reference (apart from Hollywood movies)? ... no where does Jesus or any Christian say to kill another because of honor or dishonor or any belief system. Neither does Qur'an or Prophet Muhammed (peace on him) say that. In fact prophet Muhammed (peace on him) was ridiculed and abused by many of his enemies in Mecca, but after the conquest of Mecca, rather than punish them, the prophet forgave everyone. While Jesus (peace on him) taught us to forgive and love even the enemies, Muhammed (peace on him) showed us practically. ...in Christianity we find freedom and loving even those who we disagree with. There are peace loving Christians, who follow the teaching of Jesus (peace on him) in true essence. However you cannot deny the fact that there have been, (and are), many crazy-Christians throughout the ages who would hunt up jews, burn 'witches', attack 'heathens', enslave Africans and commit many evil in the name of Jesus (peace on him). Similarly we have crazy Muslims on our side who are using religion to grind their own axes. But Qur'an certainly doesn't teach evil, it is a guidance towards success and eternal peace.

Notice I didn't state that there are crazy Muslims or crazy Christians who do crazy things. I stated, "no where does Jesus or any Christian say to kill another..."

What does the Quran say about those who leave their faith?

Qur'an (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them"

This is Peace? This is your guidance?

And notice what your prophet said -
Bukhari (84:64-65) - "Allah's Apostle: 'During the last days there will appear some young foolish people who will say the best words but their faith will not go beyond their throats (i.e. they will have no faith) and will go out from (leave) their religion as an arrow goes out of the game. So, wherever you find them, kill them, for whoever kills them shall have reward on the Day of Resurrection.'"

So, your religion rewards killing apostates? Wow.

And notice that even books on law quote your prophet:
Averroes (d. 1198), the renowned philosopher and scholar of the natural sciences, who was also an important Maliki jurist, provided this typical Muslim legal opinion on the punishment for apostasy: "An apostate...is to be executed by agreement in the case of a man, because of the words of the Prophet, 'Slay those who change their din [religion]'...Asking the apostate to repent was stipulated as a condition...prior to his execution."

So, here's the case, Jesus never once killed anyone, Muhammed killed many. Jesus never once instructed anyone to kill or harm anyone for not believing or leaving his religion. Muhammed did instruct his followers to kill those who "change their din [religion]", and even stated that those who kill will have a reward on the day of resurrection. And you still want to argue that Islam isn't spread by the sword?

While you may think that you've found something that disproves what I said, you didn't. Christians don't follow the Jewish Law, we follow Jesus. You can quote from the OT all day long, but what I stated was "no where does Jesus or any Christian say to kill another..."


1. Christians don't follow the Jewish Law, we follow Jesus.

My friend Jesus was a Jew and your Jesus preached the Torah which was a Jewish book.So if you follow Jesus you should have been a Jew.Jesus never heard the word Christian or Christianity.


2. You can quote from the OT all day long, but what I stated was "no where does Jesus or any Christian say to kill another..."


I am sorry i did not know that you do not accept the OT.I do not blame you,but now i must tell you a passage from the NT let us see how you worm your way out of this one.






Luke 19 KING JAMES VERSION.



27But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

THIS IS THE WORDS OF YOUR GOD JESUS.

Edited by iec786 - 02 March 2012 at 8:45am

iec786 wrote: While you may think that you've found something that disproves what I said, you didn't. Christians don't follow the Jewish Law, we follow Jesus. You can quote from the OT all day long, but what I stated was "no where does Jesus or any Christian say to kill another..." 1. Christians don't follow the Jewish Law, we follow Jesus. My friend Jesus was a Jew and your Jesus preached the Torah which was a Jewish book.So if you follow Jesus you should have been a Jew.Jesus never heard the word Christian or Christianity. 2. You can quote from the OT all day long, but what I stated was "no where does Jesus or any Christian say to kill another..." I am sorry i did not know that you do not accept the OT.I do not blame you,but now i must tell you a passage from the NT let us see how you worm your way out of this one. Luke 19 KING JAMES VERSION. 27But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. THIS IS THE WORDS OF YOUR GOD JESUS.

Like I said, I follow Jesus. He preached the Kingdom of God.

And as for your NT quote, let's look at that.

Luke 19:26 �He replied, �I tell you that to everyone who has, more will be given, but as for the one who has nothing, even what they have will be taken away. 27 But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them�bring them here and kill them in front of me.��

This is the end of the parable of the Ten Minas, it starts: "11 While they were listening to this, he went on to tell them a parable, because he was near Jerusalem and the people thought that the kingdom of God was going to appear at once. 12 He said: �A man of noble birth went to a distant country to have himself appointed king and then to return. 13 So he called ten of his servants and gave them ten minas. �Put this money to work,� he said, �until I come back.�"

Notice that the parable is about the judgement at the end, by God. God is the King. God is the judge. God will judge those who hate him. You disagree with this?

Notice also, that the followers of God are the ones that are given rewards, the ones that hate God, are judged. But, it's not the followers of God who do the judging, or pronouncing of judgment, it's God himself. We trust that God is fully capable to judge the matter. Now, juxtapose that with Muhammed, he had to take matters into his own hand or sword as it were, he obviously could not leave the matter to God.

Edited by Hughes - 02 March 2012 at 8:51pm