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Sufism

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longears View Drop Down
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    Posted: 13 November 2011 at 9:20am
I have a longstanding love for "The Parliament of the Birds" (Attar) and "The Rubaiyat of Omar Khayyam".  I find them profoundly beautiful; they touch my spirit (though I certainly don't claim full understanding of them).  How do most Muslims regard not only these two works but Sufism?   

Since I'm new to this forum -- this is my first post -- perhaps i should briefly offer a few personal basics:  I'm an aged woman (probably old enough to be grandmother to some of you). My faith is Franciscan Christian. However, because I have seen the face of my God in other belief systems, I cannot hold that Christianity is the only true path.  My personal approach in spiritual seeking has always been addition, never subtraction.

Thank you for any responses on the Sufi questions.   rebecca
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Chrysalis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chrysalis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 November 2011 at 10:03pm
Originally posted by longears longears wrote:

I have a longstanding love for "The Parliament of the Birds" (Attar) and "The Rubaiyat of Omar Khayyam".  I find them profoundly beautiful; they touch my spirit (though I certainly don't claim full understanding of them).  How do most Muslims regard not only these two works but Sufism?    


Hi Rebecca! Welcome to the forum. I have not heard of, nor read the above two books. However a hadith popped into my mind when I read your post. (Hadith = sayings of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH))

"Wisdom is the property of the Believer, wherever he sees it, he takes it".

So a Muslim should benefit from wisdom/knowledge wherever he/she sees it. No matter what the source. This is how I would approach the above two books whether or not I was into Sufism. We can still derive benefit from its wisdom. My 2 cents! :)


See you around!
"O Lord, forgive me, my parents and Muslims in the Hereafter. O Lord, show mercy on them as they showed mercy to me when I was young."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hayfa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 November 2011 at 1:42pm
Hi Rebecca,

Welcome to the Forum!
Hayfa
When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Rumi
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote longears Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 December 2011 at 10:29pm
Thanks for the kind replies. 

I do want to ask this: I've read that some of the Sufi poets were executed as heretics -- is that still the feeling of many Muslims, that they are/were heretics and so should not be read? If so, what is the basis for that opinion?

As you well know, we Christians have a sad history of burning people and burning books, but my problem with some books, music and art is how it encourages destructive and dangerous social behavior.  I've not thought much about religious censure.  I'd be interested in the Muslim view of that.    rebecca

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ghazzali Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 December 2011 at 6:23pm

May peace be on the guided ones. Welcome to islamicity longears.

Q.1. How do muslims regard works of Sufism?

Ans.  Depends. Obviously, sufis regard these more highly than non-sufis. Scholars are not much bothered about literary works. Quran and hadith is what bothers them. Among the general populace, the cultural heritage plays a big part. Rubayyat e Omar Khayyam will be more widely read in Iran than in Saudi Arabia.

Q.2. Were sufi poets executed?

Ans. Execution for writing poems --- not sure about that. If you can, check the source of your information. However, sufis have been driven out of some places, branded as infidels, and religious decrees have been issued against their ideologies in the past.

Q.3. Do muslims consider them as heretics?

Ans. Some do, others don’t. Depends on which side you are. There are many orders of Sufism. One does not necessarily approve the other. There are various interpretations of Sufism. The problem is that because it is surrounded by mysticism, it has always been difficult to define. So there are differences of opinion inside Sufism, and outside of it as well.

Q.4. What is the basis for the opinion that Sufis are heretics?

Ans. a) Some orders of Sufism believe that through meditation, patience and perseverance, you can reach a state of piety whereby your existence becomes part of God’s existence. You become God and God becomes you. This is clearly in violation of the most fundamental aspect of Islam, tawhid or oneness of God. God is a separate entity from us; unique, absolute, eternal. You can never be part of God, even metaphorically, no matter how pious you are.

b) Also, some sufis believe that when you reach this state, you do not need to pray, or perform other religious duties, since you have gone beyond the human existence. But, from hadith we know, Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) prayed till he breathed his last. So, when the greatest of man could not reach this state of piety, how can a normal human being achieve it?

There are many other objections like these.

I would suggest you to read the Quran, and insha’allah you will find out yourself whether Sufism is right or wrong.

As far as your personal approach to religion of addition and no subtraction, I respect it. But I want to say that your approach, or your objective as a human being should be first to find out the truth. Let truth take its own course. You should not avoid truth for the sake of fraternity among the different religions of the world. Falsehood will never unite humanity. Only truth can do it. Jesus (pbuh) is either son of God, or he is not. Both cannot be the truth. So, in this case, you have to subtract any one. It’s a hard choice, one that may not please your heart as Rubayyat e Omar Khayyam would do. But for the sake of truth, you have to do this sacrifice. After all, life has never been a bed of roses.

May Allah guide you to the right path.



Edited by Ghazzali - 16 December 2011 at 6:28pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chrysalis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 December 2011 at 8:44pm
Originally posted by longears longears wrote:

Thanks for the kind replies. 

I do want to ask this: I've read that some of the Sufi poets were executed as heretics -- is that still the feeling of many Muslims, that they are/were heretics and so should not be read? If so, what is the basis for that opinion?

As you well know, we Christians have a sad history of burning people and burning books, but my problem with some books, music and art is how it encourages destructive and dangerous social behavior.  I've not thought much about religious censure.  I'd be interested in the Muslim view of that.    rebecca



Hi longears!

Which sufi poets are you talking about? Perhaps there were some incidents like that in the past... no civilization is perfect. However as a whole, the muslims didn't really suppress  poets & scholars. There are many examples of muslim poets & writers from history who were quite controversial yet survived... not only did they survive but attained celebrity status. Mirza Ghalib from the subcontinent for example, wrote openly about certain vices, yet he had sufi tendencies and wrote about God too. Ibn Taymiyyah - a famous scholar of Islam was jailed for some of his views, but his works and teachings survive and he was pretty well known (he was a sufi) - but he wasn't executed or anything, despite accusations of deviant beliefs. There are some muslim writers who wrote poetry or stories with strong sexual content... but weren't harmed by the state.

But of course there may be instances when people were executed for holding certain beliefs like you said...

Having said that, I don't think that one should stop themselves from reading literature deemed controversial! We should also expose ourselves to the other side... how else do you know you are on the right path? Thats my personal opinion ofcourse. In Islam, a Muslim is encouraged to take good from wherever he/she finds it (within islamic bounds of course). Also we should have faith that if we have a hunger for the truth and have sincere intentions, God shall lead us to the right path (whether or not we are reading literature by controversial scholars).




"O Lord, forgive me, my parents and Muslims in the Hereafter. O Lord, show mercy on them as they showed mercy to me when I was young."
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SeekingKnowledge2020 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SeekingKnowledge2020 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 May 2020 at 8:12am
Is this s Sufi forum?
Naqashbandi? 

Or is is deobandi 
jamat  or hibz ut tarir?

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