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Fate of non-believers
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rami View Drop Down
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    Posted: 11 September 2005 at 7:48pm
Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem

assalamu alaikum

You seemed to be saying that there is hope for those who do not follow islam and follow another religion simply becouse allah is mercifull. Your words are not clear to others and my self becouse from what you have said above i see nothing wrong with it and this is exactly what i and others have been saying.

If that is the case there is no need fo further discussion we seem to be in agreement.
Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness.
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Israfil View Drop Down
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>>>>What you are advocating is chirstian understanding of love and mercy where you are forgiven all your sins no matter what you do and we will all enter heaven.<<<<

What an interesting analysis from my words brother Rami! I'm so glad of all things of all sayings you drew from my comments that they were Christian! that is laughable. There is salvation for humanity as Allah has mentioned that Muhammad (S.A.W.S) was sent as a mercy to mankind. My point here was that in many countries where extremism is existent and ongoing its impossible for people to receive the "correct message" as it relates to Islam. I am not saying one who with intention acts ignorant of the teachings of Islam will be saved but one who is not aware of its core principles I believe is not held accountable. But this is not saying that one should avoid following Islamic guidance because of such.

Indeed Allah guides whom he wills but its our duty to at least show the mercy of such guidence through righteous interpretation.
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MOCKBA View Drop Down
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Points: 1410 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MOCKBA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 September 2005 at 9:41pm

Bismillah

Wa'alaikumu Salaam!

Originally posted by Ummziba Ummziba wrote:

All we can do is deliver the message to them and show them by example how to live as a Muslim.

Indeed, Sister Ummziba, there may not be a better way of explaining Islam than having it manifested through our deeds.

It is true thou wilt not be able to guide every one, whom thou lovest; but Allah guides those whom He will and He knows best those who receive guidance. (Quran 28:56)



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ummziba View Drop Down
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Assalamu alaikum,

Perhaps part of the trial of this life is not being able to control some things.  Knowing one's family members will not accept Islam is a hard pill to swallow.  All we can do is deliver the message to them and show them by example how to live as a Muslim.  If they do not accept, we must learn to trust in Allah and accept His judgement over all things.

Work hard on inner peace.  Those who are blessed with Allah's sakinah (inner peace) can put all their trust in Him and accept all things as they unfold.  This will be like a shield of pure joy to any Muslim who can accomplish it.  This inner peace, this pure joy, buffers the many trials of this life.  Learn to accept Allah's will, learn to put all your trust in Allah, and His sakinah will shield your heart.

Peace, ummziba.
Sticks and stones may break my bones, but your words...they break my soul ~
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Es_Selam'un Aleykum ve Rahmetullahi ve Berakatuh,

The hardest exam i have been facing in my life is telling Islam to my parents who are oppose to Islam,it is so hard to calling them because they are older than me and i have raised up in their hands...i don't know what to do,i feel so weak;May Allah insh'Allah help to the muslims who are living in non-muslim area...i need to cry...brother Abuaisha may i use your shoulders,don't worry i'll insh'allah buy you an new t-shirt...
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Points: 5105 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote abuayisha Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 September 2005 at 9:37am

Originally posted by rami rami wrote:


As a muslim you are obliged to judge by the Quran and Sunnah and if your personel beliefs are not according to these your views are not Islamic and are not based on any evidence.

What Rami mention is so very true. 

My family are all non-Muslims, and I'm really sadden for them, but hoping that they embrace Islam prior to death.  Our Prophet (pbuh) was also unhappy that many from his family did not embrace Islam.  But, we do our non-Muslim family, friends, and guests a tremendous disservice by leading them to believe that need not accept Islam in order to be saved.

The religion of Islam is like the ship of Nooh: whoever boards it will be saved and whoever stays behind will be drowned. Let us not mislead anyone into believing they can seek higher ground.
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MOCKBA View Drop Down
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Points: 1410 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MOCKBA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 September 2005 at 4:21am

Bismillah

Brother Rami, thank you for clarifying the point.

Originally posted by Israfil Israfil wrote:

I believe as a Muslim there is hope for all of humanity because God is merciful, and even those who are heart hearted of Allah I believe there is hope for them to. My apologies if I'm not strict and quick to condemn but I've received a lot of that from my own brethren. I'd like to take a more rational approach to things on this matter.

Brother Israfil, if you haven't noticed yet, I always remind of the necessity to return to the Quran. 

Now if something is pointed out in the Quran (not concluded by Mockba), in this case it is the fate of the unbelievers, then why do you want to go on believing in something different only because you think is correct? May I ask you, where do you derive your "rational approach" if it is not in line with the Quran? We are not to condemn or judge, but we are to uphold Allah's Command and accept His Word as the ultimate Truth (al-haqq). Why pass by the example of a good person like Abu Talib, the Prophet's uncle... whom he loved? 

"And O ye in sin! Get ye apart this Day!

"Did I not enjoin on you, O ye Children of Adam, that ye should not worship Satan; for that he was to you an enemy avowed?-

"And that ye should worship Me, (for that) this was the Straight Way?

"But he did lead astray a great multitude of you. Did ye not, then, understand?

"This is the Hell of which ye were (repeatedly) warned! 

"Embrace ye the (fire) this Day, for that ye (persistently) rejected (Truth)." (Quran 36:59-64)

SubhanAllah! It gives me shivers to even think of "rationalising" on the subject... Don't you agree, brother?

Originally posted by human human wrote:

And yet, you say that God NEEDS his subjects to pray to him and praise him, and while praying aim the prayers towards Mecca. There is a clear quid pro quo when you say you have to do such and such or else hellfire. Is this not a human attribute?

God's anger, vengefulness and mercy are incomparable to the characteristics that humans posess. That is why these are attributes of Allah, (asma-ul-husna) the Best of the Names that belong solely to Allah and noone else. These attributes are revealed to us by Allah and are not the result of what "we say" about Him. These very attributes make it crystal clear that Allah is free from any need whatsoever, and it has been widely discussed in this forum.

Verily, when He intends a thing, His Command is, "be", and it is! (Quran 36:82) 

And direction towards Mecca does not mean directing oneself towards an object of worship... it is a mere direction reflecting discipline and unity of Allah's believers.

To Allah belong the east and the west: Whithersoever ye turn, there is the presence of Allah. For Allah is all-Pervading, all-Knowing. (Quran 2:115)



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rami View Drop Down
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Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem

assalamu alaikum

My position is that I don't know and therefore I cannot judge. Even if the Qur'an clearly states clearly of its laws I as a human and follower of God cannot judge in spite of this.

As a muslim you are obliged to judge by the Quran and Sunnah and if your personel beliefs are not according to these your views are not Islamic and are not based on any evidence.

I believe as a Muslim there is hope for all of humanity because God is merciful, and even those who are heart hearted of Allah I believe there is hope for them to. My apologies if I'm not strict and quick to condemn but I've received a lot of that from my own brethren. I'd like to take a more rational approach to things on this matter.

Allah is merciful but once his decree has come who is there to hold it of. If he punishes those who are not muslim by sending them to hell enternaly does that mean he is not mercifull?

What you are advocating is chirstian understanding of love and mercy where you are forgiven all your sins no matter what you do and we will all enter heaven.

Allah is just and he has set up a balance, who ever has an atoms weight of good will see it and who ever has atoms weight of evil will see it your understanding ignores Allahs justice, non muslims are not free from sin there is a reason why allah has not guided certain people he hasnt just left us alone.

He has 99 atributes not just one, mercy

Al-Hakam
  • The Judge, He is the Ruler and His judgment is His Word
Al-^Adl
  • The Just, The One who is entitled to do what He does.
Al-^Aliyy
  • The Most High, The Sublime, The One who is clear from the attributes of the creatures.
Al-Haqq
  • The Truth, The True, The One who truly exists.
On what basis will non muslims be sent to heaven, he is al Haqq there beliefs are lies and not truth he will not accept it from them as he has said in the Quran.

Refusing to accept allahs truth is a great sin and if you have not heard his message than you are among those who allah will test on the day of judgment there are no other exceptions.
Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness.
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