Forum Home Forum Home > Religion - Islam > Islam for non-Muslims
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Clarification on some verses
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Clarification on some verses

 Post Reply Post Reply
Angel View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior  Member

Joined: 03 July 2001
Status: Offline
Points: 6641
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Angel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Clarification on some verses
    Posted: 03 September 2005 at 9:59am


I posted these 12 months on the old forum and while Nausheen came to my rescue back then with some clearing up, I am wondering if there are any more clarification to these verses?

Nausheen, I am confused on something thou the verse numbers don't match up  so therefore got a little confused as to which belongs to where


Clarification on verses

Hi there, I like some clarification on some of these verses and perhaps provide the full if there is anymore to it, I know that we’ve been through on the likes, but there is always bits and piece from me ;-)

First I’d like to know who is Tabari and Ishaq ? And are they worthy of consideration when studying islam ? I mean to be taken as a legimate source.

Some verses seem to be quite unpeaceful and intolerant and to me, IF they are correct, then is it any wonder that some muslims are seen as terrorists and criminals. (and by the way I’m not excusing the West!!).

Are terrorists/extremists/fundamentalist really truly following their Prophet and Qur’an ?

From Tabari,
“The battle cry of the campanions of the Messenger of Allah that night was, Kill, Kill, kill” (Tabari VIII:141)

“Satan cast a false revelation on the messenger of Allah’s tongue.” (Tabari 6:107)

And from Ishaq,
“Muhammad’s followers said, “Our onslaught will not be weak. We will fight until our religion is established.” (Ishaq 587)

And from the qu’ran can these be explained any further or do they speak for themselves ?

Muhammad said, “You are commanded by Allah to carry out Jihad against the unbelieving infidels until they submit to Islam.” (Qur’an 47:4)

Allah’s apostle said, “If they turn back from Islam, seize them and kill them.” (Qur’an 4:089)

And from Bukhari:
Allah’s Apostle said, “I have been made victorious with terror.” (Bukhari V4b52N220)

------------------------------------------------------------ ---------------

From Nausheen:

On 8/20/2004 6:12:00 AM, Angel wrote:
>While my post has been around
>for 2 weeks and that should've
>been enough time to research
>them if needed and also for
>the two men in question, but
>since no one has shown me that
>these verse above are wrong,
>I'm believing they are true

Hey Angel, now that was some solid threat :p

I did see ur post but not very carefully and was lazy to reply ... for several reasons, one of which was, may be someone would be able to do it better than myself.

Tabari is a well known historian. I dont know much about him, but he is quoted for islamic history much. As`for Ishaq, never heard of him. Do u mind telling us where u got those quotes from :-/

Whenever fighting has been mentioned in the way of allah, in the text of the quran we have to understand the conditions were not normal.
It is not in a peaceful situation, that a muslim is commanded to get up and start killing all those who do not believe in islam.
The commands to fight in the Quran have been given under military conditions, which have a history of origin in some sort of dispute, breach of treaty, injustice etc from those against whom the commands were given.

I dont know the tafisr of the QUran for every command, so I cannot help you satisfactorily. However I can guarantee that the fighting were against some sort of injustice, and not an unjust measure in themselves.

When u need to check translations of Quran, is a good place to go


If u read a verse without its context, it may sound very different from what it actually is....
Chapter 47:

1. Those who reject Allah and hinder (men) from the Path of Allah,- their deeds will Allah render astray (from their mark).

2. But those who believe and work deeds of righteousness, and believe in the (Revelation) sent down to Muhammad - for it is the Truth from their Lord,- He will remove from them their ills and improve their condition.

3. This because those who reject Allah follow vanities, while those who believe follow the Truth from their Lord: Thus does Allah set forth for men their lessons by similitudes.

4. Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers (in fight), smite at their necks; At length, when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly (on them): thereafter (is the time for) either generosity or ransom: Until the war lays down its burdens. Thus (are ye commanded): but if it had been Allah.s Will, He could certainly have exacted retribution from them (Himself); but (He lets you fight) in order to test you, some with others. But those who are slain in the Way of Allah,- He will never let their deeds be lost.

you see, when one reads the verse as it is posted in your message, it sounds as if the muslims have a command to brutally kill all the kafirs whenever and wherever they see them. Whereas this verse is a command when the army meets the kafirs in a battle-field, and the two situations are very different.

Your next quote is from The Women, chapter 4:

88. Why should ye be divided into two parties about the Hypocrites? Allah hath upset them for their (evil) deeds. Would ye guide those whom Allah hath thrown out of the Way? For those whom Allah hath thrown out of the Way, never shalt thou find the Way.

89. They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks;-

verse 88 says, Why should ye be divided into two parties about the Hypocrites? . This is indicating an event that took place because of which verse 89 follows. I dont know what even this is, so I refrain from commenting. however if u notice, in verse 89, before the command to fight, there is a precondition, an if...But if they turn renegadesThus as i said in the above post, it is not in any normal situation that one is supposed to seize, and kill ... there are conditions attached to every actions.

Chapter 8:

60. Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power, including steeds of war, to strike terror into (the hearts of) the enemies, of Allah and your enemies, and others besides, whom ye may not know, but whom Allah doth know. Whatever ye shall spend in the cause of Allah, shall be repaid unto you, and ye shall not be treated unjustly.

61. But if the enemy incline towards peace, do thou (also) incline towards peace, and trust in Allah. for He is One that heareth and knoweth (all things).



Edited by Angel
~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
Back to Top
Sponsored Links

Back to Top
firewall View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 06 November 2004
Location: Malaysia
Status: Offline
Points: 215
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote firewall Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 September 2005 at 12:35pm

Edited by firewall
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.10
Copyright ©2001-2017 Web Wiz Ltd.