My thoughts My view - part 2

Dear Angel,

O.K., here is one small part of your concerns.  You posted:

From: Sahih Bukhari:
� Volume 3, Book 43, Number 622:
Narrated 'Abdullah bin Umar:
Allah's Apostle said, "A Muslim is a brother of another Muslim, so he should not oppress him, nor should he hand him over to an oppressor. Whoever fulfilled the needs of his brother, Allah will fulfill his needs; whoever brought his (Muslim) brother out of a discomfort, Allah will bring him out of the discomforts of the Day of Resurrection, and whoever screened a Muslim, Allah will screen him on the Day of Resurrection . " �

I guess greatly why the muslim leaders in the Middle East hold onto their brothers and not hand them over to the opposition to be prosecuted or the leaders to prosecute and bring justice to them for wrong doing on both muslims and non muslims.

Now, I am not a scholar, nor do I even pretend to understand the complicated world of the science of ahadith.  But I think the two following Qur'an verses will help explain the Muslim stance on justice.  I believe the hadith quoted above does not instruct Muslims to obstruct justice or protect Muslims who have committed wrongs from justice.  I believe that the above hadith instructs Muslims to protect one another from oppressors.  There is a big difference from protecting someone from an oppressor and trying to obstruct justice.

Here are the two verses, and I hope this does help you see a bit more clearly on this issue at least:

"O ye who believe!  Stand out firmly for justice, as witnesses to Allah, even as against yourselves, or your parents, or your kin, and whether it be (against) rich or poor: for Allah can best protect both.  Follow not the lusts (of your hearts), lest ye swerve, and if ye distort (justice) or decline to do justice, verily, Allah is well acquainted with all that ye do."  Qur'an an nisa 4:135

"O ye who believe!  Stand out firmly for Allah, as witnesses to fair dealing, and let not the hatred of others to you make you swerve to wrong and depart from justice.  Be just: that is next to Piety: and fear Allah.  For Allah is well acquainted with all that you do."  Qur'an al ma'idah 5:8

To protect someone from oppression is doing justice, to sheild someone from justice goes against Allah's words in the Qur'an.  Does this help?

Peace, ummziba.

Hi Angel,

Don't you consider Leaders of Pakistan any Muslims? or don't you consider the present government of Afghanistan Muslim? On the same note, don't you know that its 90% of Iraqi Muslims who get killed in the bomb attacks either by the rebels or by the occupying forces?

I can only say that day to day observations are not substantiated by your assertions. Yes, terrorists do take the support of religion. But this is not unique to Muslims only. At this time the word 'terrorists' circulate around Muslims as 'Islamic terrorists', whereas in the past, it used to be called as "crusaders" etc.

The verses from the quran are simply presented out of context and hence misinterpreted.  Yes, Quran does guide us to fight, but to fight against the agressor. Similarly, when in the strategem of war, Muslims should steadfast and not turn away; and similarly many more guiding principles. Of course, fighting had been in the past, fighting is in the present and fighting shall remain in the future as well with the history of man kind. So, how can Muslims be negelected for this important part of human life. But again, its only against the agressors.

I hope I have clearified some of your misconceptions about guidance of war with regard to Quran. If not, feel free to ask more. Till then, take care.

ummziba wrote: Do you see where I am going with this?  The only thing the average Muslim can do is to continue to spread the word of Islam and show by our example how Muslims are supposed to act.  What else would you have us do?

I understand your point, So does this render the points and views in my posts all wrong ? Are all the points from quran and hadith wrong? Do all need extensive explanation and none not taken literally ?

Angel wrote: AhmadJoyia wrote: The verses from the quran are simply presented out of context and hence misinterpreted.  how, where, show me, give examples, put the correct meaning where it is wrong (if wrong) Do actually know everything properly in all I have presented in my thoughts my view ? If things are wrong, then correct it, telling me that verses are misinterpreted and/or out of context, doesn't show me anything or teaches me what is the correct meaning.

First of all one must try to understand the difference between the Quranic verses and the Ahadith. Without realizing this difference, one is bound to understand things contrary to the actual. For example, here is the mistake, when you say

" ... How can God advocate the killing of a people ? such as the Jews and as the qu�ran verse seems to mention: "

and then you put forward this

"From: Sahih Bukhari: � Volume 4, Book 52, Number 176: Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Umar: Allah's Apostle said, "You (i.e. Muslims) will fight wi the Jews till some of them will hide behind stones. The stones will (betray them) saying, 'O 'Abdullah (i.e. slave of Allah)! There is a Jew hiding behind me; so kill him.' " � "

It must be realized that not everything in Arabic is Quran. Here is another similar mistake once your say

"How is that teaching tolerance ? Also this verse below from: http://www.al-bukhari.org/Chapter4.html �10. Inna allatheena kafaroo lan tughniya AAanhum amwaluhum wala awladuhum mina Allahi shayan waolaika hum waqoodu alnnari Those people who have adopted the path of infidelity (Kufr), neither their wealth nor their offspring will benefit them against All�h. They will become fuels of the Hell. 11. Kadabi ali firAAawna waallatheena min qablihim kaththaboo biayatina faakhathahumu Allahu bithunoobihim waAllahu shadeedu alAAiqabi Their end will be like, as it has been of the companions of Fir'aun and of the disobedients before them that they denied the revelation (Ay�t) of All�h -- the consequence was that All�h caught them for their sins and that All�h is Severe in punishment. � "

It is this misunderstanding of Quran, that probably led you make a false opinion about Islam. If you simply correct this problem, that is, to seperate Quranic verses from others, it would be rather easier for me to explain the verses of Quran that you think are not tolerent from human perspective.

I hope I have clearified some of your misconceptions about guidance of war with regard to Quran. If not, feel free to ask more. Till then, take care. Actually you really haven't cleared up anything   And by the way, ALL my questions and queries are in the post, the post is one big query

As you amalgamated everything on Islam, suffice was for me to show there are many within the Islam fighting against the evil of extremism. If your questions get specific, so shall my response be.

Edited by AhmadJoyia