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any questions from non-muslims ?

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Shaheen View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shaheen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 April 2005 at 1:11pm

Originally posted by Laurie Laurie wrote:

As in the Catholic Faith believers are made by God to attend Mass on Sunday or commit a mortal sin.  I f the believer then dies in this state of sin he is punished in hell!  As with the Islamic faith believers are made to pray 5 times a day at specific times in adoration of God.  My question is thus:  It may be quite niave but if God can create us, humans of such mental & physical complexity and as well the Universe in its entirety to enable us to survive, why then he is so insecure as to to make us pray and adore him under the threat of punishment on judgement day and into eternity.  I thought that is why God gave us free will otherwise we would be just religious robots. 

Your question, Laurie, is not niave, it is a very deep question, these are some points, I think you should consider:

  • Don’t you think that we should thank our creator who made us enjoy all these beautiful senses and created the universe for us to live in with perfect precision?
  • Every thing in this universe including all creatures worship God in their own way., Just listen to the birds at dawn and at sunset why are they all suddenly singing?
  • Do they have the choice not to worship God? And who has the choice to worship GOD or not?
  • Man is giving the choice of worshipping god, shouldn’t he be accountable for it?
  • What is the definition of worshipping god?
  • Hasn't God set laws for every thing within this universe, and all follow and work in synergy, read these Quranic verses:  

 

·        Allah (almighty) says in Al-A'raf (The Heights)

 

7:54 Your Guardian-Lord is Allah, Who created the heavens and the earth in six days, and is firmly established on the throne (of authority): He draweth the night as a veil o'er the day, each seeking the other in rapid succession: He created the sun, the moon, and the stars, (all) governed by laws under His command. Is it not His to create and to govern? Blessed be Allah, the Cherisher and Sustainer of the worlds!

 

·         and also almighty says Al-Mu'minun (The Believers)

 

23:71 If the Truth had been in accord with their desires, truly the heavens and the earth, and all beings therein would have been in confusion and corruption! Nay, We have sent them their admonition, but they turn away from their admonition.

 

  • Now only Man has the choice not to follow God’s laws, what happens if he disobeys God? And what will happen to the synergy of all laws working together?
  • I f you have 5 sons, some of them respect you and obey you, and the others don’t, who will be rewarded? And will you punish who doesn’t obey you?

I hope I have drawn some lights for you, and I will do my best with Gods help to answer all the above questions, and any others you have in mind.

 

Alhamdu lillahi rabbi alAAalameen  (Praise be to Allah, the Cherisher and Sustainer of the world). and God knows best.

 

Regards,

 

Shaheen

 

 

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Shaheen View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shaheen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 April 2005 at 1:33pm
Originally posted by tawhid tawhid wrote:

Originally posted by unity1 unity1 wrote:


Asalam Aalaikum

I welcome all my non-muslim friends in this forum who are interested in Islam. If you have any question regarding Islam ,then please donot hesitate to ask them here ,inshallah we will attempt to answer your question promptly.

Regards,

aalaikum salem

blessings in Christ my lord

where does islam stand in the debate of chreation and evolution?

where are the real enjeels?

sukran.

tawhid

 

 

For more inputs about revolution and Islam I would refer you to this site where you will find all tha answers.

http://www.evolutiondeceit.com

Regards

Shaheen

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Shams Zaman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shams Zaman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 April 2005 at 7:44am

This is to reply all who have been generous to offer comments on the topic. I had initially said we live in the world of logic and rationale but didn’t offer all the scientific logics because the document would have been too lengthy. As few readers have correctly pointed out. However I would justify as follow.

FOR MUSLIM BROTHERS

As for what Bible (Old Testament) says about Human life, my exact calculations may have gone wrong. However, these were based as follow:

From Adam to Noah = 1056 years, Noah age 950 years, Noah to Abraham = 381 years and Ishaq was born once Abraham was 100. From Jacob to Exodus it counts to   730 years. (Genesis- Ch,5 verse1-32, Ch11, verse10-32, Ch21, verse6, Ch47, verse 28, Ch50, verse 26 and Exodus- Ch 12, verse 37-41). Therefore this total comes to 3117 years (lets round it to 3500). For the period after the exodus covered in Old or New Testament I have not read that. From here I count on history.

Jesus came approx 1500 years after Moses so it totals up to 5000 years. Add another 2000 years it comes to 7000 years. But as to why I would assume that Human Life span is not older than 15000 years, because Quran and Hadith (according to my reading) does not offer any estimates. However, some Muslim scholars who have offered Quranic explanations estimate it to be as such. Well it can’t be claimed for sure.  

However, according to an article published in Newsweek a couple of years ago it mentioned that as per Gospels life is not older than 10000 years. But now I can’t recall that article. As for Human fossil of 30000 B.C you can check it up to agree or disagree at: 

 http://dsc.discovery.com/news/briefs/20040705/longevity.html   

 As to what Mr. Ahmed Joya has objected to the Juedo-Christian myths, sorry there is nothing to cheer as my source remains to be Quran, Sunnah and the Companions of Prophet (mpbuh) Sahabbah.

Jinns inhabitation:  

Narrated by Hazrat Abdullah bin Umer (RA), “2000 years before the birth of Adam Jinns were the inhabitants on earth but due to their bloodshed and fitna (anarchy), Allah sent angels who killed most of them while some took refuge on remote islands and forests.” Quoted by Hazrat Abu Jafar from Ibn-a- Ibe Hatem (RA) written in “The Narrations of Prophets” (Qasas-ul-Anbiya) by Hafiz Imam Ibn-a-Kaseer.  Also narrated by Hazrat Ibn-e-Abbas (RA) real uncle of the Prophet (mpuh) in the same book.

Allah Provided Satan with Full Opportunity.   Narrated in Sahih Muslim and also compiled in Maskaat Volume 3 Chapter Creation of Adam, Hadith no 5457, Hazrat Anas(RA) narrated that, Holy Prophet said, “Once Allah created Adam’s body, He left it in the heaven without casting his sprit for a time of which He knows. Lucifer started circling around to see as what it is? On looking inside, he discovered it to be unsound.”

 

In my opinion its not always necessary that science and logic/ rationale would always go together. Like how animals can sense the natural disasters before hand? What is sprit? Where it rests? Why 30 C dose of Homeopathy works? How specific species evolved into Human? Who are angels? Etc, science has no answers.

So occasionally we will have to use both but sometimes one. If science says there is no God or it believes that what it has found is a fossil of a 40000 years old man, or Humans have evolved from monkeys. I will use my logic or rationale over science. There are numerous reasons due to which I don’t think that life may be as old as 40000 years.

And why the world is about to see its end, not only Quran and Ahadiths clearly foretells it but science also points to the same very direction. The global warming, green house effects, the on going conflicts and threat of nuclear war and melting of ice at the poles, water crisis and diminishing energy reserves etc are the indicators. Holy Prophet had warned that once war over gold (oil/ Black gold) will start the emergence of Anti-Christ or Dajjal will be imminent. There are numerous sites which can give you information regarding major and minor signs of Doomsday. Like:

www.wakeupmuslims.com  

 

FOR NON – MUSLIM BROTHERS.

Dear sister Laurie, I am not offering anyone to change his or her religion. I am presenting a logical picture for The Purpose of creation in the light of Islamic Teachings. If it appeals you or seems to be logical you can accept it and if it doesn’t appeal well we are free to make our choices.

As to how I can prove that Prophet Muhammad (MPBH) was the messenger of God. Well I don’t think I will be able to do that. I can only give it a try. Can you convince a Jew that Jesus (MPBH) was a messenger of God? He will use a blasphemous language, or if someone says as to prove how Jesus was raised up alive? Or how he gave life to the dead by the will of God? I can’t offer any proof but to say that these were the miracles and as God say so, I have no reason for defiance. He has created me and will also raise me alive on the Day of Judgement and he also gave me so much which I may not deserve owing to my abilities. So if you can spare sometime the best would be to download the required articles from:-

http://www.irf.net/irf/download/index.htm

 

However, I can only give it a try.

(1)   Prophet Muhammad was not literate and he could not produce a book at his own.

(2)   He could not have written a book which contains warning notes for him as well.

(3)    How can he have written a book which contains no scientific error till to date and even contains instructions on cloning, Black Hole, Big Bang theories and even indicates towards the incident of 9/11.

(4)   How can he have written a book 1400 years ago of his own which challenges that not a single word of this book can be altered. And till to date it still stands by its challenge.

(5)   Can you name any book which is read so much and even is memorised word by word by more than 30 million Muslims around the world (according to careful estimates).

(6)   Can you name any person who has been so successful in religious, political and ethical form like of Prophet Muhammad? Michel Heart didn’t find a one and has named Prophet Muhammad first place, Albert Einstein second and Prophet Jesus third place in his book “The 100 – A study of Great people since ages.” Similarly Arnold Toynbee in his “Study of History” says that no one could deliver such a concise and detailed message on Human values and rights before Prophet Muhammad’s Last Sermon at Mecca. And there are numerous others as well like Prof. Montgomery Wyatt, Conston Vergil Gorego (Romania) etc.

SUFISM :  I have very little knowledge about Sufism. It is not for me because it requires a lot of sacrifice which I may not be able to offer. Secondly there is a lot more danger of Satan to ride you off the track as you sometimes have to experience some revelations from God. This sometimes may become difficult to contemplate correctly for everyone.

 FREE WILL:   Most of us say that Islam poses lot of restrictions. I always says which religion doesn’t? Like see for yourself the instructions contained in Torah or the Old Testament for Jews and Christians. Please read only two books Exodus chapter 18 – 40 and Leviticus Chapter 1 – 27. How much orders and instructions these contains. I always ask a question that what are the limits of freedom and always one would say these are not unlimited. Like if I say that I want to drive on the wrong side of the road because its my free will? Can I do that? Of course I can but then I will be in Jail. Can I place a loud speaker near my neighbour’s window? Yes at the cost of state punishment. Why because I am infringing the state laws. Whether I like it or not I will have to abide by them or face the consequences. I can enjoy my freedom till I don’t infringe with the rights of other. Similarly, Islam offers you free will till you don’t infringe the rights of God, your parents, your other fellow Muslims and the state. So freedom is always defined within the specified boundaries.

WHAT BIBLE SAYS ABOUT MUHAMMAD

In the Hebrew scripture Muhammad is mentioned by name in the Song of Solomon 5:16. The Hebrew word used there is “Muhammuddim”. The end letters IM is plural of respect majesty and grandeur. Minus "im" the name would be Muhamud translated as "altogether lovely" in the Authorised Version of the Bible or 'The Praised One' 'the one worthy of Praise' i.e. MUHUMMED! (P.B.U.H).

 At other place Bible foretells about a Prophet who will follow Moses:

"I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and I will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him." Deuteronomy 18:18

Well if you ask from Christians as to whom does this prophecy refer? Without the slightest hesitation Christians answer: "JESUS!" but "Why Jesus?... his name is not mentioned here.

So they will say that the most important words of this prophecy are(like unto thee), - LIKE YOU - like Moses and Jesus is like Moses because firstly Moses was a JEW and Jesus was also a JEW; secondly, Moses was a PROPHET and Jesus was also a PROPHET - therefore Jesus is like Moses and that is exactly what God had foretold Moses.

But if you ask them that if these are the only two criteria for discovering a candidate for this prophecy of Deuteronomy 18:18, then in that case the criteria could fit any one of the following Biblical personages after Moses like Solomon, Isaiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, Hosea, Joel, Malachi, John the Baptist etc., because they were also ALL "Jews" as well as "Prophets". Why should we not apply this prophecy to any one of these prophets, and why only to Jesus?

My conclusions are that Jesus is most unlike Moses, and if I am wrong I would like you to correct me.

In the FIRST place Jesus is not like Moses, because, according to Christians belief:- (1)  'Jesus is a god', but Moses is not god.

(2)    'Jesus died for the sins of the world', but Moses did not have to die for the sins of the world.

(3)     'Jesus went to hell for three days', but Moses did not have to go there.

(4)     Moses had a father and a mother. Muhummed also had a father and a mother.   But Jesus had only a mother, and no human father.

(5)     "Moses and Muhummed married and begat children, but Jesus remained a bachelor all his life.

(6)     "Moses and Muhummed were born in the normal, natural way.

(7)      "Moses and Muhummed were accepted as prophets by their people in their very lifetime. While Jesus gained this status almost 200 years after his rising.

(8)    "Moses and Muhummed brought new laws and new regulations for their people.

(9)    "Moses and Muhummed were prophets as well as political leaders of their nations. As regards Jesus he brought no new laws, 'THINK NOT THAT I AM COME TO DESTROY THE LAW, OR THE PROPHETS: I AM NOT COME TO DESTROY, BUT TO FULFIL. FOR VERILY I SAY UNTO YOU, TILL HEAVEN AND EARTH PASS, ONE JOT OR ONE TITLE SHALL IN NO WISE PASS FROM THE LAW, TILL ALL BE FULFILLED.'(Mathew 5:17-18)

(10)Both Moses and Muhummed died natural deaths.

"Therefore Jesus is not like Moses, but Muhummed is like Moses!"    

May Allah guide us all to the truth.

Shams Zaman   Pakistan

[email protected]             

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote icforumadmin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 April 2005 at 12:25pm

Post by Anne has been moved to a new topic "Veil" in the same forum:

http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=587

Best Regards & Peace,

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AhmadJoyia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 April 2005 at 2:39pm

Hi Admin,

where is my post gone in reply to Shams Zaman's post. Though I see my new post in reply to Anne's question but where is the one in reply to Shams.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote icforumadmin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 April 2005 at 10:25pm

Salam AhmadJoyia,

As far as we know, we didn't anything except move anne's post and the replay for the post (yours). Please let us know what date you post just in case we accidently deleted it, we may able to recover from our backup database.

Thanks,

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