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Aadam and Prophets before ’Eesa (Jesus)

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MOCKBA View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MOCKBA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Aadam and Prophets before ’Eesa (Jesus)
    Posted: 21 March 2005 at 10:31pm

Have been curious lately on Christians' view of Aadam, Noah and Prophets that have appeared before 'Eesa, peace be upon them all. What is their status in the Bible (the most common one)? Are they Prophets? Saints?   

According to someone's (who considers himself an Orthodox Christian) very raw explanation, the human being did not not completely evolve until the appearance of Jesus. And therefore history starts from his advent. This seemed to me a hybrid view between Darwinism and some branch of Christianity. 

The Islaamic position to me is clear, alhamdulillah.

Thought of taking a short cut and ask someone who has done research and is more informed on the subject from the Christian perspective.  

MOCKBA

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DavidC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DavidC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 March 2005 at 11:15pm
Prophets were similar to Islam except that as Israel developed politically
the terms changed. Prophet means god reveals the truth. King Soloman
was a prophet, but he is called King. There were judges too.

Saints are different. Developed by the catholic churches, they are role
models. One does not pray to saints - we pray with them One recalls
who that saint had worldly tribulations and how they reacted.

There is much overlap, but prophethood is bestowed by God. Sainthood
is primarily an earned title,
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AhmadJoyia View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AhmadJoyia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 March 2005 at 9:32am

Very interesting topic, indeed. Can you, DavidC, elaborate on the apostleship also. What is this kind and where does it fit in the ranking of prophethood and saints etc as the NT sometimes call the diciples of Jesus as apostles so much so that "saint" paul is also sometime seems to claim to be the apostle in some of his letters.

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DavidC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DavidC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 March 2005 at 1:13pm
The apostles were the companions of Jesus. They were not the smartest
or the best people - just simple people with faith. And not even perfect
faith at that.

There is no ranking of saints. See faq.php#idol">Saints

Paul is a unique case. He persecuted and condemned Christians under his
his original name Saul. Jesus (years after the crucifixion) appeared to Saul
andn Saul changed his name to Saul and became the most powerful and
effective Christian evangelist. A miraculous change by any standard!

DavidC
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AhmadJoyia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 March 2005 at 2:36pm
[QUOTE=DavidC] And not even perfect faith at that.

I am bit surprised about your comments. I thought these (12 apostles) were specially chosen people by no one else other than all by Jesus himself. That too, once he was right here on this earth where every one else (meaning their peers) were witness to this status given to them. Of course, also, they spent maximum time with Jesus learning all that can be taught by limited time Jesus had with them than anyone else. On the other hand, Paul got more faith instantly ("mircalous by any standard" you said) than anyone else, in the one (Jesus) to whom he never ever met in his whole life. Isn't it strange?
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DavidC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DavidC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 March 2005 at 5:47pm
AhmadJoyia, you are viewing things through Muslim spectacles. Jesus did
not choose the apostles - they chose him. Any and all were accepted
regardless of faults or doubts.   Jesus sought out the unlikely, the
downtrodden and the victimized. Jesus taught the keys to heaven were
were to be given to the poor, victimized and orphaned.

Many Christians, including Paul, met Jesus long after Jesus died on earth.
Jesus continues to change souls to this day - no books, no logic involved.

DavidC
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Israfil View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Israfil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 March 2005 at 7:05pm
Hmmm has anyone decided to answer Mockba's second
paragraph on evolution. I highly doubt the human being
evolved after Jesus seeing how the Homon Sapien which is us
came from the Homo Erectus some 100,000 years ago. So
humans inclduing and after Jesus' time were already evolved
creatures so I doubt the Christian interpretation of human
evolution based on what you mentioned in correct.
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AhmadJoyia View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AhmadJoyia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 March 2005 at 7:09pm

Your replies seem to be more in generality to my specifics as I can't assume you don't know the few early chapters of the NT as who called on whom to form master-deciple relationship during Prophet Jesus's ministry. or probably, I should not delve more into this aspect. Ok, let us talk about your faith in one God and how you state as "Jesus continues to change souls to this day - no books, no logic involved"? Do you intend to say people still meet Jesus in their visions, the same way as Paul saw him on his trip to damascus? By the way, I am not very sure when did Jesus say that he would be coming to people in this way after he has gone to heavens?

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