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Question For Open ( Debate For Christian

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Webber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 January 2013 at 10:13pm
Every once in a while someone wonders how they can look like they know something and have compiled information without doing the real work, so they hit answering-christianity.com, or some similar and find exactly what they were looking for. Or so they think. Sorry, I couldn't help but comment.

Quote If Saul , Shaool , Paul was going to teach the Gentiles then he should have been converting them to the teaching and the laws of the person whom he claimed to be receiving all of these visions

Paul was a missionary; his job was to convert Gentiles, pagans, idol worshippers, w/e to Christianity, not to make Jews out of them.  Muhammad didn't make Jews out of Arabs either.  

Quote Yashu'a , Isa , Jesus Said ; Keep the Sabbath ( Mark 2 ; 27 ) circumcise male children on the 8th day ( Luke 2 ; 21 ) .

Jesus actually said the Sabbath was created for man, not man for the Sabbath. In its context, which is more than three (not in the verse) words, Jesus was refuting the Scribes and Pharisees for their criticism of the disciples who weren’t fasting on the Sabbath, were picking corn on the Sabbath, and His curing a boy with palsy on the Sabbath. According to the Pharisees and scribes all this was unlawful yet Jesus did and allowed His disciples to do these things on the Sabbath.  How does that interpret to “Keep the Sabbath”?

The same as your reference to Luke 2:21. Jesus was 8 days old and circumcised. Was this by His own orders? What child has authority to say or do anything about it at 8 days old? This is not a command of Jesus but a record to show He was circumcised, as were all Jews according to the law given Moses.

 

Quote Saul , Shaool , Paul ; Circumcision is not necessary ( Romans 2 ; 26 ) all you need is '' circumcison of the heart '' ( Romans 2 ; 29 ) that is going against what Jesus Christ said in John 7 ; 22 - 23 . The word ANTI meaning , '' to go against '' so Anti - Christ means to go against anything that Jesus Christ taught .

Paul merely brought out the logic. If you are circumcised yet do not follow the law what good is it to you? If circumcision was the only way to heaven then every American soldier will be there.  Paul cautioned his people more about UNcircumcising themselves through their other sins.  See how context makes a difference?

 

Quote Yashu'a , Isa , Jesus Said ; Unless you are baptized you shall not see the kingdom of God ( John 3 ; 3 -5 ) .

This is a total misrepresentation. Wow, if anyone screwed up the Quran like this you’d be all over them. This is the corruption of the Bible right here. It’s called Muslim manipulation. The Quran warns of this, Muslims think it was way back when. It still happens.  Where is the word baptized used in this passage and in what translation? None. There is no reference to baptism here at all. What does it make reference to? Rebirth. Ye must be born again. By the logic you propose we were all baptized when our mother’s water broke. The point Jesus was making was a spiritual awakening, a rejuvenation of the mind by the Holy Spirit of God.

Quote Saul , Shaool , Paul ; You are saved by accepting Jesus ; he does not mention Baptism ( Roman 10 ; 9 - 10 ) .

At least Paul knew what Jesus was talking about. Romans 12:2 Paul says; And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

 

Quote The Law of Mosheh , Musa , Moses says ; In 2Chronicles 7 ; 12 - 16 , it says that , the Lord dwells in chosen temples , a law through Mosheh , Musa , Moses ,

Please do me a favor and read 2 Chronicles 7:12 – 16 and tell me where/how it says that.  Middle of verse 14 it says “Then I will hear from Heaven” It ends with “My eyes and my heart will be there perpetually. Who are Gods eyes? There are other places in the OT where it speaks of angels in the temples. It would seem by some of the descriptions that these angels were visable.

Quote Saul , Shaool , Paul says ; in Acts 7 ; 48 , '' The Most High does not dwell in temples , '' God dwells in light in 1Timothy 6 ; 16 says Saul , Shaool , Paul

Paul must have been talking about God being in heaven, kinda like God said he was in 7:14.

Quote Saul , Shaool , Paul says ; Anger is approved by him in Ephesians 4 ; 26 , as well as , in Proverbs 22 ;24 .

LOL, Paul says;  “ Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath” No idea how you get the “as well as” to Proverbs. Paul didn’t write Proverbs…

 

Quote The Law of Mosheh , Musa , Moses says ; It is law that every man - child be circumcised in Genesis 17 ; 10 , Saul , Shaool , Paul says ; You will gain nothing if you are circumcised in Galatians 5 ; 2 .

The Law of Mosheh , Musa , Moses says ; Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy in Exodus 20 ; 8 ,

 Saul , Shaool , Paul says ;Don't judge a man who does not keep the Sabbath in Romans 14 ; 5 And Colossians 2 ; 16 ,

This is just reiterated goop.

Quote  The Law of Mosheh , Musa , Moses says ; Do not eat pork in Leviticus 11 ; 7 , And the swine , though he divide the hoof . and be cloven footed , yet he cheweth not the cud ; he is unclean to you , '' Saul , Shaool , Paul says ; You can eat anything in Roman 14 ; 2 , '' For one believeth that he may eat all things ; another , who is weak , eateth herbs ,

Now how does this statement made by Paul about a weak Christian have anything to do with some unfounded declaration that you can eat anything?

Quote Saul , Shaool , Paul even went against the Baptism 1Corinthians 1; 14 , 17 , And I Quote ; I thank God ( Theos , Elohyeem ) that I baptized none of you , but Crispus and Gaius ( 17 ) For Christ sent me not to baptize , but to preach the gospel ; not wisdom of words , lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect , '' which Yashu'a , Isa , Jesus , himself was given by Yowkhanan Yahya , John ( Baptist ) . Make not that Yowkhanan Yahya , John ( Zebedee ) still spoke of Baptism after Saul , Shaool , Paul's statement because his books came later , Yet , still in John 1 ; 26 , it says '' John answered them , saying , I Baptize with water ; but there standeth one among you , whom ye know not .

Mark 1; 9 , And I Quote ' And it came to pass in those days , that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee and was Baptized of John in Jordan .  

John 1 ; 33 , And I Quote ; And I knew him not ; but he that sent me To Baptize with water , the same said unto me , Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending and remaining on him , the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost .  

Take note, Baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.  Refer back to the conversation Jesus had with Nicodemus. Muslims know nothing of this, nor do they understand. If anything, you use it against yourself.

Change the “and I quote” to “and I copy/paste” and you could at least redeem yourself by letting people know you didn’t put this thing together yourself.

Anything else you'd like to know about Paul?

I'm a Gentile.
Numb. 6:24-26
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Saved Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 October 2016 at 1:07pm
Originally posted by IssaEl999 IssaEl999 wrote:

<FONT face="Times New Roman, Times, serif" color=#000066>Ques ; The Immaculate Conception Of Mary That Christians ( Preach True ) ?
Ques ; How Does The Self Apointed  Saul , Shaool , Paul Justify Abolishing The Law ?
You are the one asking a question, but you were asked to back up why your question about Paul abolishing the law should be considered valid being that is one of rules on forum to show your source. You show your inferences from certain verses but they are out of context.

As for the virgin birth of Jesus, that information was borrowed from the gospel of Matthew; there is no other common or mutual source of that original message but from the uncorrupted gospel.

The gospel also gives the reason for His virgin birth, but the Quran gives no reason as to why Jesus had to have been born of a virgin.
The law was never abolished; it was fulfilled by Jesus, and through Him, we fulfill the law also; without Him, instead of fulfilling the law, we will be judged by the law!

PBUY,
Al

Edited by Saved - 31 October 2016 at 1:02pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote syed_z Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 November 2016 at 9:04am
Originally posted by Saved Saved wrote:

The gospel also gives the reason for His virgin birth, but the Quran gives no reason as to why Jesus had to have been born of a virgin.
The law was never abolished; it was fulfilled by Jesus, and through Him, we fulfill the law also; without Him, instead of fulfilling the law, we will be judged by the law!

PBUY,
Al


Saved,

Again You made a claim from the Quran that you did not provide a proof for. This makes us ask question whether you are here to truly learn about Islam or contradict Islam?

The Quran does explain why Jesus, son of Mary (alaihi Salaam) was born of a Blessed Virgin Mary and I can show you but I want you to show me because you just made a false claim against the Quran!

Thats Sad....


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Saved Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 November 2016 at 1:09pm
Originally posted by syed_z syed_z wrote:


Originally posted by Saved Saved wrote:

The gospel also gives the reason for His virgin birth, but the Quran gives no reason as to why Jesus had to have been born of a virgin.
The law was never abolished; it was fulfilled by Jesus, and through Him, we fulfill the law also; without Him, instead of fulfilling the law, we will be judged by the law!

PBUY,
Al
Saved,Again You made a claim from the Quran that you did not provide a proof for. This makes us ask question whether you are here to truly learn about Islam or contradict Islam?The Quran does explain why Jesus, son of Mary (alaihi Salaam) was born of a Blessed Virgin Mary and I can show you but I want you to show me because you just made a false claim against the Quran!Thats Sad....

Syed_z:

I actually see it the other way around. That is this thread is making a false statement about the gospel, but I explained to you how the law hadn't been abolished.

Instead of going off topic by questioning my motives and speaking for others instead of yourself alone, why don't you show the proof that I said something untrue or made a false claim. Just because a claim is made that you don't agree with doesn't make it false.

All I said is the Virgin Birth of Jesus is original only to the gospel along with the reason. I looked for the reason in the Quran and couldn't find why he had to have been born of a virgin. What is the reason for Jesus' virgin birth in the Quran, and why does this appear to offend you?

Keep in mind this is supposed to be an open debate.

I am learning from your reactions to my comments. Do you want to just have a one sided discussion or debate only?

PBUY,
Al



Edited by Saved - 06 November 2016 at 2:01pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Saved Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 November 2016 at 1:49pm
Originally posted by islamispeace islamispeace wrote:

I agree with Bunter about the virgin birth.  That is simply a matter of faith, as it is with Muslims.  But the second topic is definitely interesting.  Christians make all sorts of arguments to try to exonerate Paul, but as with many of their arguments, there are many inconsistencies which they try very hard to ignore.  
This is not about Paul; he didn't come up with the virgin birth story. This topic is mainly about the virgin birth of Jesus which is original and unique only to the gospel along with the blessed reason. But now that you mentioned it, what are the inconsistencies with Paul?

Edited by Saved - 06 November 2016 at 5:48pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Caringheart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 December 2017 at 10:13pm
Originally posted by IssaEl999 IssaEl999 wrote:

Ques ; How Does The Self Apointed  Saul , Shaool , Paul Justify Abolishing The Law ?

I know this question was asked many years ago, but interestingly I came upon it tonight, just after answering a Christian on this same subject earlier today.  Here was my address to them:

Paul's words in his letter to the Romans chapter 7:
am I suggesting that the law of God is sinful? Of course not! In fact, it was the law that showed me my sin. I would never have known that coveting is wrong if the law had not said, “You must not covet.
the law itself is holy, and its commands are holy and right and good.
Did the law, which is good, cause my death? Of course not!
14 So the trouble is not with the law, for it is spiritual and good. The trouble is with me, for I am all too human
22 I love God’s law with all my heart.

We are not told to dismiss the law.  Indeed without the law we would not know what sin is.
We should strive to follow the law, for it is a protection unto us,
however if we do fall into sin because of our human nature, there is a Savior, one Yshwe Messiah (known as Jesus the Christ) who can rescue us from the power of sin which causes us to disregard the law. 
It is our love of Christ (this sacrifice of God which showed His love for us) which gives us the power to follow the law and overcome sinfulness.  It does not dismiss the law.

The only law that was ever excused for the gentiles was the law of food
(Yshwe came to make it understood (by all) that God will judge, not by what we put into the body, for what we put into the body goes out in the draught... what matters is what is in the heart)
and of circumcision (though I believe most Christians follow the Jewish way and circumcise because it is good)...
All of God's laws are good (and for the good) of mankind... they preserve our health.
At the time of the early Christians though, these two things were a stumbling block to the gentiles keeping them from coming to know Christ, so Paul helped to understand that it was not these things which were important, but the coming to Christ with one's heart.

The thing we have been released from is 'the power of sin to use God's law against us', because we have the power of the Holy Spirit living within us to combat that power and to help us to follow God's law and avoid sinning.


21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

asalaam and blessings,
Caringheart
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever
"I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Al Masihi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 March 2018 at 9:24am
Paul never abolished the Old Law, the Old Law was never meant for Christians it was always meant as a temporary law for the children of Israel whose descendants are the Jewish people. Jesus came to fufill the law as the Jewish priests accused him of trying to change it he said I have not come to abolish the law but to fufill it which means Christ came to complete the Old Law. It was never abolished since it was never meant for Christians in the first place.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Niblo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 March 2018 at 3:50pm
I've not read through all the posts, so please forgive me if someone has stated this already:

The doctrine of the 'immaculate conception' has nothing to do with the virgin birth. It is the notion that Mary was conceived without the 'stain' of original sin.

I can elaborate, if you wish.
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