Jesus' Great Commandments: The Bridge?

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   I posted this on another thread here, but I think it makes more sense over here.  It just so happened that I saw the commentary section from Mansoor ali over there... Here's the link there to see what Mansoor ali said.  Here's the posting...

-----------------------------------------------------

Monsoor ali said: (Bold and emphasis mine) 

******************************

Quran says in Surah 3:1-4 

(3:1) Alif, Lam, Mim.

(3:2) Allah, the Ever-Living, the Self-Subsisting, Who sustains the entire order of the universe - there is no God but He.

(3:3) He has revealed this Book to you, setting forth the truth and confirming the earlier Books, and earlier He revealed the Torah and Gospel 

(3:4) for the guidance of mankind;1 and He has also revealed the Criterion (to distinguish truth from falsehood). A severe chastisement lies in store for those who deny the signs of Allah. Allah is All-Mighty; He is the Lord of Retribution.

Commentary by Maulana Maududi

1. The Torah is generally taken to signify the first five books of the Old Testament, and the Injil (Gospel), to mean the four Gospels of the New Testament, even though those books form a part of it. This has sometimes caused people to wonder if these books were indeed revealed by God. If they are accepted as revealed, one may wonder if the Qur'an really verifies their contents as this verse says. The fact is, however, that the Torah is not identical with the first five books of the Old Testament even though those books form a part of the Torah. Likewise, the Injil is not identical with the four Gospels of the New Testament.

The fact is that the Torah, in the Qur'anic usage, signifies the revelations made to Moses (peace be on him), in about forty years, from the time he was appointed a Prophet until his death. These include the Ten Commandments', which were handed over to him inscribed on stone tablets. Moses took down the rest of the revealed injunctions and handed over one copy to each of the twelve tribes of Israel, and one copy to the Levites for safe keeping. It is this book which was known as the Torah and it existed until the first destruction of Jerusalem. The copy entrusted to the Levites was put beside the Ark of the Covenant along with the Commandment tablets, and the Israelites knew it as the Torah. The Jews, however, neglected the Book: during the reign of Josiah the King of Judah the Temple of Solomon was under repair and the high priest, Hilkiah, chanced to find the Book lying in the construction area. He gave it to the King's secretary, Shaphan, who in turn took it to the King as if it were a strange find (see 2 Kings 22: 8-13).

Hence, when the Babylonian King, Nebuchadnezzar, conquered Jerusalem and razed it and the Temple of Solomon to the ground, the Israelites lost for ever the few original copies of the Torah which they possessed, and which they had consigned to obscurity. At the time of Ezra the priest, some Israelites returned from captivity in Babylon, and when Jerusalem was rebuilt the entire history of Israel, which now comprises the first seventeen books of the Old Testament, was recorded by Ezra with the assistance of some other elders of the community. Four of these books, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy, consist of a biographical narrative of Moses. In this biography those verses of the Torah available to Ezra and the other elders are also recorded and in the contexts in which they were revealed. The present Torah, therefore, comprises those fragments of the original book which are interspersed throughout the biography of Moses (composed in the manner described above).

In locating these fragments of the original Torah there are certain expressions which help us. These are interspersed between the different pieces of biographical narration and usually open with words such as: 'Then the Lord said to Moses', and 'Moses said, the Lord your God commands you.' These expressions, then, are fragments of the original Torah. When the biographical narration re-commences, however, we can be sure that the fragment of the true Torah has concluded. Wherever authors and editors of the Bible have added anything of their own accord, by way of either elaboration or elucidation, it has become very difficult for an ordinary reader to distinguish the original from the explanatory additions. Those with insight into Divine Scripture, however, do have the capacity to distinguish between the original revealed fragments and the later, human interpolations.

It is these scattered fragments of the original revealed Book which the Qur'an terms as the Torah, and it is these which it confirms. When these fragments are compared with the Qur'an, there is no difference between the two as regards the fundamental teachings. Whatever differences exist relate to legal matters and are of secondary importance. Even today a careful reader can appreciate that the Torah and the Qur'an have sprung from one and the same Divine source.

Likewise, Injil signifies the inspired orations and utterances of Jesus (peace be on him), which he delivered during the last two or three years of his life in his capacity as a Prophet. There are no certain means by which we can definitively establish whether or not his statements were recorded during his lifetime. It is possible that some people took notes of them and that some followers committed them to memory. After a period of time, however, several treatises on the life of Jesus were written. The authors of these treatises recorded, in connection with the biographical account, those sayings of his which they had received from the previous generation of co-religionists, in the form of either oral traditions or written notes about events in his life. As a result the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John are not identical with the Injil. Rather, the Injil consists of those statements by Jesus which form part of these Gospels. Unfortunately we have no means of distinguishing the fragments of the original Injil from the pieces written by the authors themselves. All we can say is that only those sections explicitly attributed to Jesus, for example in statements such as: 'And Jesus said' and 'And Jesus taught', constitute the true Injil. It is the totality of such fragments which is designated as the Injil by the Qur'an, and it is the teachings contained in these fragments that the Qur'an confirms. If these fragments are put together and compared with the teachings of the Qur'an one notices very few discrepancies between the two, and any discrepancies that are found can be resolved easily by unbiased reflection. 

********************************** 

YieldedOne:
In terms of this particular commentary, I would submit that Deuteronomy 6:4-6 and Leviticus 19:9-18 are good candididates for authentic Torat and Injeel material, given this description. They seem to fulfill all the criteria.

"And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying...": Leviticus 19:1 
�Now this is the commandment, the statutes and the rules that the Lord your God commanded me to teach you, that you may do them in the land to which you are going over, to possess it: Deuteronomy 6:1 
But when the Pharisees heard that he had silenced the Sadducees, they gathered together. And one of them, a lawyer, asked him a question to test him.  �Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?� And he (Jesus) said to him, �You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.  This is the great and first commandment.  And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets.�:  Matthew 22:34-40

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YieldedOne Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Newbie Joined: 05 February 2011 Status: Offline Points: 29	Post Options Post Reply Quote YieldedOne Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 09 February 2011 at 10:28pm
	I posted this on another thread here, but I think it makes more sense over here. It just so happened that I saw the commentary section from Mansoor ali over there... Here's the link there to see what Mansoor ali said. Here's the posting... ----------------------------------------------------- Monsoor ali said: (Bold and emphasis mine) **************************** Quran says in Surah 3:1-4 (3:1) Alif, Lam, Mim. (3:2) Allah, the Ever-Living, the Self-Subsisting, Who sustains the entire order of the universe - there is no God but He. (3:3) He has revealed this Book to you, setting forth the truth and confirming the earlier Books, and earlier He revealed the Torah and Gospel (3:4) for the guidance of mankind;1 and He has also revealed the Criterion (to distinguish truth from falsehood). A severe chastisement lies in store for those who deny the signs of Allah. Allah is All-Mighty; He is the Lord of Retribution. Commentary by Maulana Maududi 1. The Torah is generally taken to signify the first five books of the Old Testament, and the Injil (Gospel), to mean the four Gospels of the New Testament, even though those books form a part of it. This has sometimes caused people to wonder if these books were indeed revealed by God. If they are accepted as revealed, one may wonder if the Qur'an really verifies their contents as this verse says. The fact is, however, that the Torah is not identical with the first five books of the Old Testament even though those books form a part of the Torah. Likewise, the Injil is not identical with the four Gospels of the New Testament. The fact is that the Torah, in the Qur'anic usage, signifies the revelations made to Moses (peace be on him), in about forty years, from the time he was appointed a Prophet until his death. These include the Ten Commandments', which were handed over to him inscribed on stone tablets. Moses took down the rest of the revealed injunctions and handed over one copy to each of the twelve tribes of Israel, and one copy to the Levites for safe keeping. It is this book which was known as the Torah and it existed until the first destruction of Jerusalem. The copy entrusted to the Levites was put beside the Ark of the Covenant along with the Commandment tablets, and the Israelites knew it as the Torah. The Jews, however, neglected the Book: during the reign of Josiah the King of Judah the Temple of Solomon was under repair and the high priest, Hilkiah, chanced to find the Book lying in the construction area. He gave it to the King's secretary, Shaphan, who in turn took it to the King as if it were a strange find (see 2 Kings 22: 8-13). Hence, when the Babylonian King, Nebuchadnezzar, conquered Jerusalem and razed it and the Temple of Solomon to the ground, the Israelites lost for ever the few original copies of the Torah which they possessed, and which they had consigned to obscurity. At the time of Ezra the priest, some Israelites returned from captivity in Babylon, and when Jerusalem was rebuilt the entire history of Israel, which now comprises the first seventeen books of the Old Testament, was recorded by Ezra with the assistance of some other elders of the community. Four of these books, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy, consist of a biographical narrative of Moses. In this biography those verses of the Torah available to Ezra and the other elders are also recorded and in the contexts in which they were revealed. The present Torah, therefore, comprises those fragments of the original book which are interspersed throughout the biography of Moses (composed in the manner described above). In locating these fragments of the original Torah there are certain expressions which help us. These are interspersed between the different pieces of biographical narration and usually open with words such as: 'Then the Lord said to Moses', and 'Moses said, the Lord your God commands you.' These expressions, then, are fragments of the original Torah. When the biographical narration re-commences, however, we can be sure that the fragment of the true Torah has concluded. Wherever authors and editors of the Bible have added anything of their own accord, by way of either elaboration or elucidation, it has become very difficult for an ordinary reader to distinguish the original from the explanatory additions. Those with insight into Divine Scripture, however, do have the capacity to distinguish between the original revealed fragments and the later, human interpolations. It is these scattered fragments of the original revealed Book which the Qur'an terms as the Torah, and it is these which it confirms. When these fragments are compared with the Qur'an, there is no difference between the two as regards the fundamental teachings. Whatever differences exist relate to legal matters and are of secondary importance. Even today a careful reader can appreciate that the Torah and the Qur'an have sprung from one and the same Divine source. Likewise, Injil signifies the inspired orations and utterances of Jesus (peace be on him), which he delivered during the last two or three years of his life in his capacity as a Prophet. There are no certain means by which we can definitively establish whether or not his statements were recorded during his lifetime. It is possible that some people took notes of them and that some followers committed them to memory. After a period of time, however, several treatises on the life of Jesus were written. The authors of these treatises recorded, in connection with the biographical account, those sayings of his which they had received from the previous generation of co-religionists, in the form of either oral traditions or written notes about events in his life. As a result the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John are not identical with the Injil. Rather, the Injil consists of those statements by Jesus which form part of these Gospels. Unfortunately we have no means of distinguishing the fragments of the original Injil from the pieces written by the authors themselves. All we can say is that only those sections explicitly attributed to Jesus, for example in statements such as: 'And Jesus said' and 'And Jesus taught', constitute the true Injil. It is the totality of such fragments which is designated as the Injil by the Qur'an, and it is the teachings contained in these fragments that the Qur'an confirms. If these fragments are put together and compared with the teachings of the Qur'an one notices very few discrepancies between the two, and any discrepancies that are found can be resolved easily by unbiased reflection. ******************************** YieldedOne: In terms of this particular commentary, I would submit that Deuteronomy 6:4-6 and Leviticus 19:9-18 are good candididates for authentic Torat and Injeel material, given this description. They seem to fulfill all the criteria. "And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying...": Leviticus 19:1 �Now this is the commandment, the statutes and the rules that the Lord your God commanded me to teach you, that you may do them in the land to which you are going over, to possess it: Deuteronomy 6:1 But when the Pharisees heard that he had silenced the Sadducees, they gathered together. And one of them, a lawyer, asked him a question to test him. �Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?� And he (Jesus) said to him, �You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment. And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets.�: Matthew 22:34-40

YieldedOne Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Newbie Joined: 05 February 2011 Status: Offline Points: 29	Post Options Post Reply Quote YieldedOne Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 09 February 2011 at 1:02pm
	Not trying to be campy or anything, but deep in my heart I truly believe that decent focus on this--from both Christians and Muslims--would help interfaith dialogue tremendously. And both Christians and Muslims can do so with a "clear conscience" religiously speaking. When Christians and Muslims "love one another" as "neighbors", they KNOW they are doing the will of Allah spoken clearly by Isa, messenger and prophet of God. What say you, Islamispeace? Edited by YieldedOne - 09 February 2011 at 1:03pm

YieldedOne Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Newbie Joined: 05 February 2011 Status: Offline Points: 29	Post Options Post Reply Quote YieldedOne Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 09 February 2011 at 12:47pm
	*Scripture given to Jesus* Muslims believe that God revealed to Jesus a new scripture, the Injīl (gospel), while also declaring the truth of the previous revelations � the Tawrat (Torah) and the Zabur (Psalms). Descended 600 years after Jesus' life on earth, the Qur'an speaks favorably of the Injīl, which it describes as a scripture that fills the hearts of its followers with meekness and piety. It is argued that the Qur'an says that the original Biblical message has been distorted or corrupted (tahrif) over time. In Chapter 3, verse 3, and Chapter 5, verses 46-47, of the Qur'an, the revelation of the Gospel is mentioned: It is He Who sent down to thee (step by step), in truth, the Book, confirming what went before it; and He sent down the Law (of Moses) and the Gospel (of Jesus) before this, as a guide to mankind, and He sent down the criterion (of judgment between right and wrong) And We caused Jesus, son of Mary, to follow in their footsteps, confirming that which was (revealed) before him in the Torah, and We bestowed on him the Gospel wherein is guidance and a light, confirming that which was (revealed) before it in the Torah - a guidance and an admonition unto those who ward off (evil). Let the people of the Gospel judge by what Allah hath revealed therein. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (no better than) those who rebel. I truly believe that "new scripture" which also declared the truth of previous revelations including the Torah...is right here... "A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another." "This is my command: Love each other." Same as it ever was....same as it ever was...same as it ever was...same as it ever was... (David Byrne, baby...) Another version of "Love your neighbor as yourself."

YieldedOne Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Newbie Joined: 05 February 2011 Status: Offline Points: 29	Post Options Post Reply Quote YieldedOne Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 09 February 2011 at 6:36am
	I'll say this flat-out: The differences in the way Muslims and Christians look at the fulness of Jesus' relationship to God does NOT "override" Jesus' prophetic, Torah-affriming call to "neighborliness" to the other. I thought Surah 4:36 was interesting... Worship Allah and associate nothing with Him, and to parents do good, and to relatives, orphans, the needy, the near neighbor, the neighbor farther away, the companion at your side, the traveler, and those whom your right hands possess. Indeed, Allah does not like those who are self-deluding and boastful. From the commentary I've seen on this passage, the "neighbor farther away" refers to non-family, to the stranger. Here's a section from "A Common Word Between Us and You", written by Muslims... LOVE OF THE NEIGHBOUR IN ISLAM There are numerous injunctions in Islam about the necessity and paramount importance of love for�and mercy towards�the neighbour. Love of the neighbour is an essential and integral part of faith in God and love of God because in Islam without love of the neighbour there is no true faith in God and no righteousness. The Prophet Muhammad r said: �None of you has faith until you love for your brother what you love for yourself.�^xviiiAnd: �None of you has faith until you love for your neighbour what you love for yourself.�^xix However, empathy and sympathy for the neighbour�and even formal prayers� are not enough. They must be accompanied by generosity and self-sacrifice. God says in the Holy Qur�an: It is not righteousness that ye turn your faces^xx to the East and the West; but righteous is he who believeth in God and the Last Day and the angels and the Scripture and the prophets; and giveth wealth, for love of Him, to kinsfolk and to orphans and the needy and the wayfarer and to those who ask, and to set slaves free; and observeth proper worship and payeth the poor-due. And those who keep their treaty when they make one, and the patient in tribulation and adversity and time of stress. Such are they who are sincere. Such are the pious. (Al-Baqarah 2:177) And also: Ye will not attain unto righteousness until ye expend of that which ye love. And whatsoever ye expend, God is Aware thereof. (Aal �Imran, 3:92) Without giving the neighbour what we ourselves love, we do not truly love God or the neighbour. Edited by YieldedOne - 09 February 2011 at 7:21am

YieldedOne Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Newbie Joined: 05 February 2011 Status: Offline Points: 29	Post Options Post Reply Quote YieldedOne Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 09 February 2011 at 6:31am
	Thanks very much, Islamispeace. I really appreciate the response. Much! You said: I think what you have said makes sense but it is nothing new. There are many similarities between Islam and Christianity. No one will deny that. The problem is that the differences are in the most important issues, such as the status of Jesus. Let's face it. Similarities in accepting the authority of Moses (pbuh) as a prophet or agreeing that Allah is merciful and loving is trumped by the differences is the way we look at Jesus (pbuh). Christians worships Jesus as God. This is blasphemy to Muslims. Conversely, that Muslims deny Jesus as God is blasphemous to Christians. These are grave differences and they unfortunately trump the similarities. I'm aware of the grave differences, and frankly, they'll probably be here to stay. I mentioned those as well. However, my issue is the issue of faith-grounded "neighborliness" between the faithful members of the "People(s) of the Book." My main point is this: For any people who believe Isa, Son of Mary, is the God-authenticated messenger, servant, and prophet of God who "confirms the Torah" by speaking truth about it's core affirmations, they are *faith-bound* to "neighborliness" to others because of what Isa affirms from the Torah. From the orthodox Christian perspective, the Great Commandments of loving God with all the heart, soul, mind, and strength...and loving the "neighbor" (any and all other human beings) as oneself. From the Christian standpoint, both Paul and Jesus affirm that loving the neighbor as the self (as conceptualized in Leviticus 19:9-18) encapuslates the core meaning of the Torah and the Prophets. That means REGARDLESS of whatever "blasphemous" belief a person may have, orthodox Christians are faith-bound, by allegience to God's Messiah and Prophet Jesus as he reified the central truths of the Torah, to love the Muslim as themselves and in so doing, demonstrate love for Jesus' God. If a Christian believes that Jesus is a genuine "messenger" from God and his chosen Messiah, then they cannot just treat Muslim faithful in any kind of mean or unjust way. Why? Because they are "NEIGHBORS." If I saw any supposedly self-reflective, knowledgeable Christian that did any thing other than love their Muslim "neighbors" as themselves in and through loving God, I would say that they were being quite inconsistent with their faith in Jesus and his proclaimed Truth. There's absolutely no denying that for Christians. From what I've seen of Islamic sources, there is a definite reverence of the "original" Torah and Jesus as a "confirmer" of that Torah. Here is a quote I found from Sohib N. Sultan's The Qur'an and Sayings of Prophet Muhammad: Selections Annotated & Explained on page 24, where there was comment on Surah 3:3-4... The Torah of Moses and the Gospel of Jesus are mentioned here as scriptures that were sent by God for the purpose of guidance. As such, Muslims are required, by faith, to believe in the unaltered, original Torah and Gospel as books of revelation. However, emphasis must be placed on the word "original" because Muslims believe that the Torah and Gospel were altered by the hands of men in later generations. He's talking about some means of "tahrif" of the Torah that's been taken to supposedly obscure things in it, right? Well, I think that's a major question I have: Is the message of Leviticus 19:9-18) one of the things that has been claimed to have been "corrupted" by Jews or Christians? Is there any Islamic authoritative source that basically says that the subject matter is Leviticus 19:9-18 of the Torah is "corrupted" and is therefore not applicable for Muslim faith? There is no way that the Torah can just be totally thrown out of hand. I've not seen anything that says that absolutely every verse in the Torah is unusable for guidance by Allah. (If there is such a thing, I would love for you brothers and sisters to show me such. that'd be so helpful! ) It appears to me that if there is no justifiable reason to "throw out" Leviticus 19:9-18 (and it's relatively simple injunctions about not stealing, not lying, not promoting injustice, etc), then it would seem that self-reflective knowledgeable Muslims are just as faith-bound by that Torah-truth as Christians are. Let me place Leviticus 19 stuff here... �You shall not steal; you shall not deal falsely; you shall not lie to one another. You shall not swear by my name falsely, and so profane the name of your God: I am the Lord." �You shall not oppress your neighbor or rob him. The wages of a hired servant shall not remain with you all night until the morning. You shall not curse the deaf or put a stumbling block before the blind, but you shall fear your God: I am the Lord." �You shall do no injustice in court. You shall not be partial to the poor or defer to the great, but in righteousness shall you judge your neighbor. You shall not go around as a slanderer among your people, and you shall not stand up against the life of your neighbor: I am the Lord." �You shall not hate your brother in your heart, but you shall reason frankly with your neighbor, lest you incur sin because of him. You shall not take vengeance or bear a grudge against the sons of your own people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the Lord." The principles in these seem fairly straightforward. Is there any type of asserted "tahrif" in this Torah teaching that disavows it from Muslim faith? According to Wikipedia, Amin Ahsan Islahi writes about four types of tahrif: 1. To deliberately interpret something in a manner that is totally opposite to the intention of the author. To distort the pronunciation of a word to such an extent that the word changes completely. 2. To add to or delete a sentence or discourse in a manner that completely distorts the original meaning. For example, according to Islam, the Jews altered the incident of the migration of the Prophet Abraham in a manner that no one could prove that Abraham had any relationship with the Ka�bah. 3. To translate a word that has two meanings in the meaning that is totally against the context. For example the Hebrew word that is equivalent to the Arabic �ابن� was translated as �son� whereas it also meant �servant� and �slave�. 4. To raise questions about something that is absolutely clear in order to create uncertainty about it, or to change it completely. Do you, dear readers, believe that any of these things are going on with respect to the core messages of Leviticus 19:9-18? ------------------------------------- Sidenote: Can you imagine what interfaith discourse between Muslims and Christians would be like if we treated each other like "neighbors" as stated above? It would revolutionize the conversation, I believe! Edited by YieldedOne - 09 February 2011 at 6:54am

islamispeace Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 01 November 2005 Status: Offline Points: 2187	Post Options Post Reply Quote islamispeace Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 08 February 2011 at 8:40pm
	Hi YieldedOne. I think what you have said makes sense but it is nothing new. There are many similarities between Islam and Christianity. No one will deny that. The problem is that the differences are in the most important issues, such as the status of Jesus. Let's face it. Similarities in accepting the authority of Moses (pbuh) as a prophet or agreeing that Allah is merciful and loving is trumped by the differences is the way we look at Jesus (pbuh). Christians worships Jesus as God. This is blasphemy to Muslims. Conversely, that Muslims deny Jesus as God is blasphemous to Christians. These are grave differences and they unfortunately trump the similarities.
	Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)

YieldedOne Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Newbie Joined: 05 February 2011 Status: Offline Points: 29	Post Options Post Reply Quote YieldedOne Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 08 February 2011 at 11:10am
	Hmmm...doesn't seem to be much interest yet. Say admins and mods, you all game? I'm really looking for some feedback on the ideas. Are they mistaken? Unclear? I'm open to changing my perspective as needed. It's all about growing in understanding! Anyone?

YieldedOne Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Newbie Joined: 05 February 2011 Status: Offline Points: 29	Post Options Post Reply Quote YieldedOne Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 07 February 2011 at 6:22am
	I think that there are two bedrock foundations undergirding the thoughts above that are specifically linked to the Quranic texts... 1) Authority of Moses as Prophet of God and "ground" of the Torah. 2) Jesus (Isa) as God-sanctioned faithful "brother" within the "Children of Israel" and *Prophet of God* to the same. I just can't see how a knowledgeable, faithful Muslim or Christian could disavow the two major beliefs above. From the Quranic perspective, Surah 61:6-7 demonstates both of these points this amply... "And remember what Jesus, son of Mary, had said: "O children of Israel, I am indeed a Messenger sent to you by Allah, confirming the Torah which has come before me and giving the good news of a Messenger who shall come after me, whose name shall be Ahmad." From what I understand, Moses as Prophet is a MAJOR Quranic ground for the authenticity of Muhammad. To deny the Authority of Moses would be implicitly to deny that Muhammed was a "prophet like unto Moses" and the given authority as such. That's unacceptable. Next, Jesus (Isa)...as Jewish "brother" (Martin Buber), a covenantal member of the "Children of Israel" to whom the Torah was given by God...is directly asserted in the Quran to be an authentic Prophet and Messenger sent by God with direct revelation of the Torah's truth from God himself. From the orthodox Christian perspective (and Jewish, too), the Authority of Moses and the Torah is taken for granted. As is Jesus being a member of the "Children of Israel" as well as Prophet sent by God to those "Children." Now...there are obvious differences...and we should say that straight out. We know that Muslims and Christians will legitimately differ on the fulness of what Jesus' relationship with God actually was. Obviously. I really don't think that's gonna change. As long as the Quran specifically speaks against belief in a Trinity, a faithful Muslim that believes what Muhammed says about that is NOT gonna be fully accepting of the Christian Eucharist--an essential aspect of orthodox Christianity--and it's Trinitarian implications. As long as the Quran specifically denies that Jesus is the Son of God, an orthodox Christian is not gonna be fully accepting of the Quran as genuine, authoritative revelation of God...nor will they fully accept the proclaimer of such (Muhammad) to be "from God" given 1 John 2:23. At the same time... Neither Christians NOR Muslims can deny the Authority of Moses as Prophet of God and "ground" of the Torah and Jesus (Isa) as God-sanctioned faithful "brother" within the "Children of Israel" and Prophet of God to the same. and from that... --The Shema (Deuteronomy 6:4-9) --Leviticus 19:9-18 --The belief that Allah is Compassionate, Merciful, Gracious, and Loving, (per the Quranic and Biblical texts stating such) --The belief that Jesus proclaimed 1-3 as a faithful messenger and servant of Allah per the Quran. Again, any thoughts are welcome with this. Have fun with it! Edited by YieldedOne - 07 February 2011 at 6:35am