You know what bugs me about God?

Hi Gibbs,
Yeah, it would seem some rules are in the least frustrating but more than anything they don;t seem logical.

Like you, I questioned such things but it did my head in.

The best way I can answer your question is that perhaps it isn't the actual sin that condemns you but the disobedience to the rule/commandment that prevents you from getting to heaven. Does that kind of make sense?

Expect someone else will be more fire and brimstone than me about your query.

Fatwa (41)

Q) What is the legal (Shari'a) ruling on masturbation as an act which prevents one from falling into and committing fornication (Zina)?

A) Masturbation is an unpleasant action and contradicts good and proper taste and manners. Scholars differed over the ruling on masturbation, as some said it was entirely forbidden (Haram), others said it was detestable (Makrooh) entirely without any sin being born by the person whilst others said that it is Halal when one fears that he may fall into fornication otherwise. Indeed some said that it is obligatory if one felt that it stops from committing Zina, according to the principle of preventing the greatest harm with the least.

We are of the opinion that it is detestable without any sin being born by the person, particularly in the case of those who live in immoral and promiscuous countries. We base our opinion of it being detestable (Makrooh) that Islam guided us to ways to protect ourselves from Zina, i.e. marriage, fasting or patience and forsaking for Allah (swt). Islam did not mention masturbation as a proper form of prevention from Zina. As for our opinion that the person committing this act does not bear any sin; because the legal evidence did not clearly state it being Haram. This was merely understood form the verse in the Holy Quran:

"who abstain from sex" to the verse: "But those whose desires exceed those limits are transgressors" (23:5-7).

This verse does not offer a clear ruling that masturbation is Haram, and all Hadiths that are related to this effect are inauthentic, especially that a number of great scholars stated that it was permissible, such as Ibnu Abbas, Al-Hassan Al-Basri, Ahmed Ibnu Hanbal, Ibnu Hazm and others[1].

However, if the person's sexual arousal became so great as to prevent him from thinking of anything else and made him anxious, whilst being unmarried or away from his wife, and felt that masturbation would allay these anxieties, then he may do so without it being a detestable act. However, one must never make this a habit which may then become an illness to the extent where he would even refrain from approaching his own wife. One must also remember the importance of seeking the legal methods of alleviating this problem, such as marriage, fasting or patience in the way of Allah (swt).

Gibbs wrote: This isn't some tirade of mine but promoting a sensible discussion about some "questionable" rules God has laid down. I understand Muslims here aren't supposed to question their faith especially if they are to consider theirselves Muslim. But I'm sure in the past Muslims have encountered other Muslims who have questioned their faith about God openly anyway....... Gibbs:  DO NO ASSUME that being a Muslim automatically puts him/her at top of scale in faith's strength... It varies from person to person based on any number of factors & environment (a long subject) throughout the life span ... Allah is of course forgiving as long as he /she doesn't fall in total disbelief like a bad student getting cocky after flunking...No one is born with  know it all condition and questioning things one doesn't know is part of knowing the unknown! What really got me going here ironically was the discussion on masturbation in the male forum. Apparently, it is a major sin to have self stimulation and if one doesn't repent they are destined to Hell. Now this isn't poking any fun at Islam but the reasoning behind it. This also isn't about discussing sexual behavior but the logic behind rules. It is not a major sin otherwise it would have been mentioned as such in the revelation so don't start something that is not a fact! Discussing this under Nabil's context could fall into the sin category! I think originator of other thread has other problems than simple masturbation that I don't need to know ... By your logic the hell would be full of monkeys, dogs and kangaroos too LOL Everyone does something that would go against the revelations knowingly or otherwise but as long as he has not hurt someone God is forgiving.  As long as the person does this kind of stuff and keeps to himself that is all there is to it!  You should have left this discussion in the men's section... Now we live in a world with STD's and self stimulation is the safest form of abstaining from reckless sexual behavior yet God has decreed it a sin. Why? Why is self stimulation a sin and not racism? Why is worshipping the trinity an unforgivable sin but not abortion or sexism? Why is eating pork a sin and not child abuse? I don't understand how God puts innate impulses in humans then create irrational laws to teach us how to behave. In the case of masturbation I don't see how this act of self stimulation can land someone in hell, a realm of pain and suffering. Of all sins why is that one that lands you in Hell? LoL I mean you have mothers who birth babies and throw them in dumpsters or you have men who molest their own children. Yet, in Islam you will go to hell (if you don't repent) for masturbating, or if you don't believe in a bearded Jewish guy who suffered tremendously on a humiliating piece of wood (Christianity) or don't follow the +120 laws in Judaism.  It is not a sin as compared with other things you mentioned! You can punch in the Quranic search and you will not find it...Trust me! Doesn't matter whatever you have been told ...It is becoming a mountain of a e molehill... Muslim people are just waking up from a long slumber; they have a long way to go yet than getting bent out of shape about this ... Although a belief in an idea of God is questionable, a belief in God or a higher power for me is more likely than not, but the belief in a particular version of God is another thing. I guess my main issue are rules that don't make sense and unless I have a huge misunderstanding this belief of mine still stands. I just don't see how masturbation is a big enough sin and not rape. Just relax it is not big deal, tell people who are too prudish to go watch little boys in their cribs what they do when have no diaper on! LOL.  So if someone doesn't grow up it's still OK The problem is broadcasting personal stuff about PRIVATE ACTIVITY and that is probably becomes whatever a sin/misdemeanor in a decent company! Still there is redemption for the misbehavior!  I would love to sit down and have a chat with the Almighty over a cup of Irish Coffee and discuss my issues. The option is yours all it needs is to commit harikiri and I am not sure who will make you or serve Irish coffee then LOL!

Edited by Sign*Reader - 27 June 2010 at 1:16am

Hi Gibbs,

You said that you understand that Muslims here aren't supposed to question their faith and all of God's rules. I have a completely different understanding. Especially well-educated Muslims (as well as well-educated Christians) should question everything. Religious beliefs without critical thinking are empty and meaningless. Believers with brains running on autopilot not only dishonor God's wonderful creation like the universe, planet Earth, life on Earth and especially human beings capable of making some sense of our universe. Humans are not mindless robots blindly following some binary code being carried out in their CPUs.

But questioning our faiths and all of God's rules by applying critical thinking can also lead to answers why many elements of our faiths and their rules actually make a lot of sense. Human altruism for example does have survival value, if you look at it from an evolutionary perspective. Then look at Zakat, the third pillar of Islam. It makes a lot of sense. Or take daily prayer. It makes a lot of sense. It slows down our minds, especially in a technologically advanced world where everything seems to accelerate. Prayers can give us back our strength and focus.

Jesus said that if someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. This metaphor is reflected in various nonviolent resistance strategies that led India into independence and helped Martin Luther King's dream come true. It even brought down the Berlin Wall in 1989.

Many rules are actually rules invented by humans. Cultural traditions. For example that Catholic priests can't marry or that Muslims should not eat pork. The latter was invented because there were no refrigerators in the 5th century and extreme heat can render pork inedible. If people eat it they can get very sick. But there's more it. Food and the preparation of food became a symbol and a set of rituals which are very important for social bonding. Therefore even in 2010 with plenty of refrigerators not eating pork can make sense. Muslims share common rituals. Christians share common rituals. Wikipedia states that the purposes of rituals are varied; with religious obligations or ideals, satisfaction of spiritual or emotional needs of the practitioners, strengthening of social bonds, social and moral education, demonstration of respect or submission, stating one's affiliation, obtaining social acceptance or approval for some event or just for the pleasure of the ritual itself.

So eating pork in an abstract form isn't a sin. Same as eating meat on Friday for Christians. It simply means that these believers do not share all rituals common in their religion. God loves people regardless of whether they eat pork or not. God loves people when they care for the poor.

Masturbation is not a sin either. And liberal Muslims would agree. But if believers choose not to masturbate, this is fine. We have to keep in mind that religions do evolve. They cannot be frozen at a particular point in the past. Religions do have to make sense in the context of today's world. We have a better understanding of sexuality today compared to 1000 years ago.

If educated religious believers are convinced they are doing the right thing because of their critical thinking, then their belief has true value. If you force people to believe in God or even make threats that atheism is punishable by death and the belief in the Prophet is mandatory, such a belief is essentially worthless. Only after Muslims and Christians have dealt with their doubts and questioned their belief can they become true believers.




Edited by Matt Browne - 27 June 2010 at 2:16am