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Are man really stronger then women?

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schmikbob View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote schmikbob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 July 2010 at 6:49pm
Also, what is the business about "lowering the gaze" and not "stamping the feet".  Are these also things that Hijabi women prefer?  I would find that very difficult to believe.  
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Hayfa View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hayfa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 July 2010 at 10:30am
Well Schmikobob,

The same could be said for women here you hang their bodies out for everyone to see.. its "What they are used to." They are used to men staring at breasts. They are "trained" that their bodies are what they should emphasize and value.

You are right, m many, many Muslim women do not want their children to grow up in a society where half-nudity is the norm. I don't know why you seem to want these women to run around half-naked? Why can you not respect their choices. And why are you so patronizing as to think you know better than them what they should do?  Every society has rules and norms. For instance, men need to wear a shirt in stores. Its the norm. If a man does not like it tough. We have norms, other cultures have norms. In those cultures, where what you want in your private home, but dress decently outside of the home.

And yes, families DO decide. Just like my parents decided the rules in their house other families can do so. I was a nonMuslim as a child and there was no way we would be allowed to dress as people are today. So why should they not allowed to decide their standards?


And yes if you go to Pakistan, people are not naked. Yes people are "used to" wearing clothes. Men and women. It is true for men and women.This is true if you visit the Amish or the Hasidic Jews. People are not naked. Why not let them be?

And the rules were established by God, not men or women.

Lowering of gaze applies to men AND women. You seem to think its alright for men to stare at women like a piece of meat. Lowering your gaze is about not staring or seeking to entice. Not a bad idea.

A central core of Islam is Haya-Modesty. Both men and women should strive to be modest in actions and thoughts. It may not be something you value, so be it. But for others its important.

Oh, you make it sound like these people like in the backwater.. hah. You know there are more women in the maths and sciences in the Middle East than in the US? Many Saudis are rich and travel to Europe. You don't think they have TVS and satelite dishes? That Malaysia has a very high rate of literacy? In fact many Muslims have... computers!

Why not let others set their own standard. Just like they let you (our society) set out own.






When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Rumi
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xx__Ace__xx View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote xx__Ace__xx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 July 2010 at 2:45pm
One big problem with majority is they think only women are restricted in Islam. Easily shows how they're one-sided about it, not a need required to waste time explaining, but as already pointed out, its not just women, but men too who are strictly told to lower their gaze and stuff.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote honeto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 July 2010 at 8:51pm
Originally posted by schmikbob schmikbob wrote:

I rather think it's more a function of what they are used to.  If that is all you know then you have nothing to compare it to.  This is very similar to when the Soviet Union broke up and former Soviet republic citizens came to live in the United States.  Many were absolutely shocked upon entering their first supermarket to find that were places on the planet that had more that a dozen items on the shelves and for excellent prices.  That was all they knew for their entire lives and so they assumed it was normal.
 
I also assume these rules were not established by women for women but by men for women.  Am I wrong?
  
 



Yes my friend you are wrong, these are rules not established by men or a women, because that will be man made rules, and that is not the case with Islamic teachings rather these are limits set by God. Rights, limits and obligations are God's terms and rules for both men and women to follow.

Hasan



Edited by honeto - 07 July 2010 at 9:04pm
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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honeto View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote honeto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 July 2010 at 9:01pm
Originally posted by schmikbob schmikbob wrote:

Also, what is the business about "lowering the gaze" and not "stamping the feet".  Are these also things that Hijabi women prefer?  I would find that very difficult to believe.  



You see that Islam is a complete code of life, lowering the gaze and to not be stamping the feet are also God's commands not something associated just with Hijabi women prefer as you say.
24:30 (Y. Ali) Say to the believing men that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty: that will make for greater purity for them: And Allah is well acquainted with all that they do.
24:31 (Y. Ali) And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty;..
...and that they should not strike their feet in order to draw attention to their hidden ornaments.
These are commands from our Creator, just like other commands like serve your Creator. I would invite you to read and understand the Quran, because a lot these issues you bring are indeed clearly answered in it.

Hasan



Edited by honeto - 07 July 2010 at 9:09pm
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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schmikbob View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote schmikbob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 July 2010 at 6:59am
Such is always the case where faith trumps logic.  God told me to do it?!  Do I have that right?  I once asked a Catholic scholar why women could not be preists.  The answer was because Jesus did not have female apostles, the church could not.  This is not only faulty logic but has been used to justify millenium of bad reasoning . 
God told me to it is the same as "These are God's laws"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote xx__Ace__xx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 July 2010 at 3:06pm
I wouldn't bring Christianity in Islam if I were you, cuz unlike it everything in Islam makes sense to us muslims, nothing's "just cuz God said so" about it to me, its actually a belief that what God in Islam tells us is better for the mankind and the entire planet itself.
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schmikbob View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote schmikbob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 July 2010 at 5:45pm
Your statement defies logic.  I'm pretty sure that most things in
Christianity makes sense to Christians.  "its actually a belief that what God in Islam tells us is better for the mankind and the entire planet itself" is another way of saying "I know God's will and it is this!".  All in all, pretty delusional.   
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