Are man really stronger then women?

schmikbob wrote: Such is always the case where faith trumps logic.  God told me to do it?!  Do I have that right?  I once asked a Catholic scholar why women could not be preists.  The answer was because Jesus did not have female apostles, the church could not.  This is not only faulty logic but has been used to justify millenium of bad reasoning .  God told me to it is the same as "These are God's laws"

I don't see it as faulty logic, all practicing Muslims, Christians and Hindus I know of practice that, they lower their gaze, dress modestly and do a lot of things in common, only in Islam they are fulfilled completely. Those who follow these rules our maker has set for us, do see results. I can tell you among those who practice it, there is less immorality, sin and common sex crimes. Those who do not practice it you will see higher immoral behavior, sin and crimes.
Its like the place where you work, your boss sets his rules, if you obey them, he is happy with you, if you obey them with a higher degree he is more happy with you.  But when you start to challenge him, and break his rules by living by your own rules at his domain, at your work in this example, he is unhappy with you, he kick you out. Imagine if that was the only place, so once he kicked you out, you are all done.
Not an exact comparison but just to give you some idea to understand why it is important that a creation must know and obey its Creator.
Hasan

I've said this before the problem is face veils, not veils in general.

Headscarfes to cover hair are fine if women want to wear them. But a veil is not required to prevent women from being looked at as a sex object as many Muslims would argue, because this is the problem of ignorant men � and foolish men should not be the reason for women to turn into faceless ghosts whenever they are in public. If anyone has to change it�s the men, not the women. When I look at women I see human beings, not sex objects. Good parenting is required to raise boys so that they become mature men. When I look at a beautiful women I see beauty. When women look at attractive men, they see beauty too. No big deal.

Dehumanizing people by taking their faces away is very wrong in my opinion. Facial expressions are a form of nonverbal communication. They are a primary means of conveying social information among humans. There are seven universally recognized emotions shown through facial expressions: fear, anger, surprise, contempt, disgust, happiness, and sadness. Regardless of culture, these expressions are the same.

Face perception is the process by which the brain and mind understand and interpret the human face. Mirror neurons help humans understand goals and intentions of other humans and many researchers argue that the mirror neuron system is involved in empathy. The human face�s proportions and expressions are important to identify origin, emotional tendencies, health qualities, and some social information. From birth, faces are important in the individual�s social interaction. Face perceptions are very complex as the face expressions involve vast involvement of areas in the brain. Sometimes damaged parts of the brain can cause specific impairments in understanding faces or prosopagnosia (Source: Wikipedia).

As I said there�s no problem for women wearing a headscarf either as a symbol for religion or to keep the head warm in winter. There is a problem with face veils and moderate Muslim women should come up with creative strategies to make this unfortunate tradition disappear. Face-hiding garments are wrong except when walking to the south pole or riding a motorcycle at high speeds.

Women should participate in public life, show their faces and have a significant influence in society. Showing their faces in private is not enough. Faces is what makes us human. As social creatures we rely on face perception. Therefore taking faces away is a way of dehumanizing people. To me a Burqa symbolizes a mobile prison. Not even the eyes are visible through the bars of the women�s tiny prison windows.

In Western countries we got dress codes too. In a city it�s not appropriate to run around naked and it�s also not appropriate to run around fully cloaked. This has little to do with religion. It�s a matter of culture and dress code. When Western women travel to Iran, for example as journalists, they respect the local dress code which means wearing a headscarf. This is okay. We should respect that. But we also want some respect when it comes to our culture and our dress codes in Western countries.

Matt Browne wrote: Dehumanizing people by taking their faces away is very wrong in my opinion. Facial expressions are a form of nonverbal communication. They are a primary means of conveying social information among humans. There are seven universally recognized emotions shown through facial expressions: fear, anger, surprise, contempt, disgust, happiness, and sadness. Regardless of culture, these expressions are the same. Face perception is the process by which the brain and mind understand and interpret the human face. Mirror neurons help humans understand goals and intentions of other humans and many researchers argue that the mirror neuron system is involved in empathy. The human face�s proportions and expressions are important to identify origin, emotional tendencies, health qualities, and some social information. From birth, faces are important in the individual�s social interaction. Face perceptions are very complex as the face expressions involve vast involvement of areas in the brain. Sometimes damaged parts of the brain can cause specific impairments in understanding faces or prosopagnosia (Source: Wikipedia).

Today's age of technological innovation and advancement shoes how depending on "facial expressions" is a thing of the past. And that Humans, bieng higher evolved species have the uncanny ability to communicate & interpret signals/communication without having to "See" the face of the person they are communicating with. Huge multi-national corporations, operating across borders, cultures, and language barriers manage to do just fine without facial communication. In fact those that are still fixated upon having direct face-to-face contact like you suggest - wouldn't fare well in such an environment

People are relying less & less upon facial contact . . . Emails, Chats, SMS, Voice-Conferencing, Phones etc etc etc. Yet they still want Muslim women to reveal their face because they suddenly become unable to communicate effectively ? ? ? ?  

Mind you - communication is also a two-way street. Both parties should be willing to communicate using the same media. Just because some people want to "facially communicate" with a Veiled Woman, while she clearly doesn't wish to . . .  the law should force her to expose her face and make her use the same medium as you ?

Chrysalis I am sure you can relate... when I was in Pakistan I did not find the women in a full-face veil lacking assertiveness!  Some can be quite assertive!

I think for people who have only lived here, it IS hard to comprehend that people make it work. I used to wonder to.. but its odd.. people do manage it just fine.

I think with the exception of a few specific situations, people co-exist quite fine. And the women who want to wear it, also choose the extent of their interactions.

Have you ever seen the video made on this Saudi female gynecologist. She did her job- full face veil and all.. And she's a doctor. She met with families- both men and women. Seemed to work for her and the others involved.