Are man really stronger then women?

Well Schmikobob,

The same could be said for women here you hang their bodies out for everyone to see.. its "What they are used to." They are used to men staring at breasts. They are "trained" that their bodies are what they should emphasize and value.

You are right, m many, many Muslim women do not want their children to grow up in a society where half-nudity is the norm. I don't know why you seem to want these women to run around half-naked? Why can you not respect their choices. And why are you so patronizing as to think you know better than them what they should do?  Every society has rules and norms. For instance, men need to wear a shirt in stores. Its the norm. If a man does not like it tough. We have norms, other cultures have norms. In those cultures, where what you want in your private home, but dress decently outside of the home.

And yes, families DO decide. Just like my parents decided the rules in their house other families can do so. I was a nonMuslim as a child and there was no way we would be allowed to dress as people are today. So why should they not allowed to decide their standards?


And yes if you go to Pakistan, people are not naked. Yes people are "used to" wearing clothes. Men and women. It is true for men and women.This is true if you visit the Amish or the Hasidic Jews. People are not naked. Why not let them be?

And the rules were established by God, not men or women.

Lowering of gaze applies to men AND women. You seem to think its alright for men to stare at women like a piece of meat. Lowering your gaze is about not staring or seeking to entice. Not a bad idea.

A central core of Islam is Haya-Modesty. Both men and women should strive to be modest in actions and thoughts. It may not be something you value, so be it. But for others its important.

Oh, you make it sound like these people like in the backwater.. hah. You know there are more women in the maths and sciences in the Middle East than in the US? Many Saudis are rich and travel to Europe. You don't think they have TVS and satelite dishes? That Malaysia has a very high rate of literacy? In fact many Muslims have... computers!

Why not let others set their own standard. Just like they let you (our society) set out own.

schmikbob wrote: I rather think it's more a function of what they are used to.  If that is all you know then you have nothing to compare it to.  This is very similar to when the Soviet Union broke up and former Soviet republic citizens came to live in the United States.  Many were absolutely shocked upon entering their first supermarket to find that were places on the planet that had more that a dozen items on the shelves and for excellent prices.  That was all they knew for their entire lives and so they assumed it was normal.   I also assume these rules were not established by women for women but by men for women.  Am I wrong?

Yes my friend you are wrong, these are rules not established by men or a women, because that will be man made rules, and that is not the case with Islamic teachings rather these are limits set by God. Rights, limits and obligations are God's terms and rules for both men and women to follow.

Hasan


Edited by honeto - 07 July 2010 at 9:04pm

Such is always the case where faith trumps logic.  God told me to do it?!  Do I have that right?  I once asked a Catholic scholar why women could not be preists.  The answer was because Jesus did not have female apostles, the church could not.  This is not only faulty logic but has been used to justify millenium of bad reasoning . 

Your statement defies logic.  I'm pretty sure that most things in